Hello and military question

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Hello and military question

Postby carol524459 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:46 pm

Hello everyone
Thank you for letting me join your forum. I have been dabbling in genealogy off and on for many years but lockdown has given me time to do a lot more in-depth research.

I’m trying not to spread my research too wide so currently I am concentrating on trying to work through my own family brick wall.

It concerns my great grandfather Thomas Judd 1878-1944 who was a soldier in WW1 – I think he was in the Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) 1897 - service no 5701, but as Thomas Judd is a common name I can’t be 100% sure.

While he was away in the war, in 1915, his wife Annie Judd appeared before Hertfordshire Borough Sessions and this was reported in the HERTFORDSHIRE MERCURY April 1915, page 5 – headlined HARD LABOUR FOR CHILD NEGLECT

Annie was tried for drunk and disorderly behaviour and long-term child neglect which led to my grandfather and his siblings being taken into Barnardo’s homes for the rest of their childhood.

In the newspaper report is this sentence "Inspector Melaniphy said the defendant’s allowance of 23s. a week had been stopped by the War Office on October 23.”

So this is my brick wall – I would really like to know
1 - What allowance would she be receiving in 1915 when Thomas Judd was serving in the war, and
2 - Why would it be stopped?
(The newspaper report says her husband Thomas was away at the Front and a letter I have from Barnardo’s also says Thomas was away at the war.)

Grateful for any thoughts anyone may have about helping me research this further please.

With thanks in anticipation.
Carol
PS please tell me if I am not following correct procedure for posting.
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Re: Hello and military question

Postby peterd » Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:41 pm

Hi Carol, Welcome to the forum
A person should have an opinion on everything, It becomes tact whether you reveal that opinion or not.

http://www.deneview.co.uk/
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Re: Hello and military question

Postby gardener » Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:13 pm

Hi!

This may interest you https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 9014548826 it is about Scotland really but probably applied to England too.

There seems to have been something called separation allowance

"Allowances did increase and by 1918, a mother of four children was in receipt of 31 shillings "
and
"Over time separation allowances did safeguard the living standards of many soldiers’ families, but they also increased the state’s ability to monitor the behavior of soldiers’ wives. The benefits were not a wife’s in her own right and this facilitated the state placing conditions on the receipt of benefits. Separation allowances could be withdrawn for “immorality, conviction of a criminal charge, gross neglect of children, lack of cleanliness and drunkenness.”

So perhaps that is why the money was taken off her.
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Re: Hello and military question

Postby gardener » Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:38 pm

So, I'm pretty sure I found his records. In there is a letter dated 23 October 1915 that says

"Please note that no further issue of Separation Allowance will be made to the wife of No. 7140 Private T Judd, 4th Bedfordshire Regiment, on account of her immoral conduct.
Ordinary rate will in future be issued to her for the five children."

The next document gives her address as Mrs A Judd, 54 Railway Street, Hertford

and it gives her name as Annie Maria Wackett and their marriage date as 24 December 1899, but it must be this one

Name: Annie Maria Wackett
Gender: Female
Age: 19
Birth Date: 1879
Marriage Date: 24 Dec 1898
Marriage Place: St.Andrews, Hertford, Hertford, England
Father: Sibley Wackett


Name: Thomas Judd
Gender: Male
Age: 20
Birth Date: 1878
Marriage Date: 24 Dec 1898
Marriage Place: St.Andrews, Hertford, Hertford, England
Father: Thomas Judd

I'll sent you a message too so check for that
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Re: Hello and military question

Postby carol524459 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:08 pm

Firstly, thank you 'Peterd' for your welcome. Very pleased to meet you.

Secondly, thank you so much 'Gardener' for your replies - the journal article is fascinating - the soldier record is accurate - Annie's maiden name was Wackett and the dates and address are correct - I'm simply gobsmacked at how quickly you found it and thank you so much for taking the trouble. It also gives me accurate info about his regiment so it's invaluable on so many counts.
Can I ask the source you consulted so I can add it as a reference for my tree.

Lovely to meet you too and I wish I'd found this forum so much earlier. Looking forward to reading more posts and maybe helping someone else in return.
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Re: Hello and military question

Postby gardener » Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:09 pm

OK, so i can't message you, probably because you have only posted once. But I will when I can :-)
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Re: Hello and military question

Postby carol524459 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:19 pm

I thought I'd copy a transcript of the newspaper article. My grandad was Joseph and he was teetotal his whole life so I guess his childhood memories were very bad.
"HERTFORDSHIRE MERCURY 1915, page 5
Hertfordshire Borough Sessions Thursday…

HARD LABOUR FOR CHILD NEGLECT – Annie Judd (35) a married woman, of Railway Street, who adopted a very defiant attitude in Court, was summoned for ill-treating and neglecting her five children in a manner likely to cause them unnecessary suffering and injury to health. Inspector O. Melaniphy of the NSPCC, said that on October 7 he went to the defendant’s house, and had much difficulty in obtaining admittance. Witness went upstairs and there discovered Mrs Judd in bed with two children. The house was in a filthy condition, and in consequence of the state of the place and the children he called in Dr Hall. The boy David, aged 6, had a bad sore on the left hand, was dirty, and badly shod: Charlie (7) had four sores on the back of his head: Joseph (11) had an old pair of corduroy trousers on and was badly shod : Ellen (9) had sores on her feet: and Violet (13) had a sore on a toe. There was only one bed in the house and there were some rags on the floor, on which the defendant said the boys slept at night. There was no blanket, and the clothing on the bed was in a filthy condition. The children had been removed to the workhouse.
Dr HSW Hall gave corroborative evidence, and said the house was very foul smelling and dirty. There was absolutely nothing to cover the children at night. PS Palmer said that at 1am on September 30 he went to the defendant’s house to search for an absentee, when defendant was under the influence of drink. The children were sleeping with a few old rags over them. He had frequently seen defendant drinking with men. Her husband was at the front. PC Read said that on Saturday August 7 at 10.30pm he was in Railway Street when he received information that there was groaning and an awful noise at defendant’s house. He opened the door and found a soldier dead drunk and asleep on the sofa. Another soldier was on the floor under the influence of drink, with Mrs Judd who was also drunk, lying by his side. The soldiers were reported. Inspector Melaniphy said the defendant’s allowance of 23s. a week had been stopped by the War Office on October 23. Defendant was sentenced to two month’s hard labour, and an order was made for the children to remain in the workhouse until the Society could find a home for them."

(Apologies if this is too long for a post.)
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Re: Hello and military question

Postby carol524459 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:22 pm

thanks Gardener - I don't know how to help you send me a message.
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Re: Hello and military question

Postby gardener » Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:00 am

Hi Carol

How sad for the family. Northern Lass and I have a similar sort of thing in our family and I found it hard to read the newspaper cuttings about that.

I sent you a message which you should be able to read.
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Re: Hello and military question

Postby carol524459 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:48 pm

hello
yes it is very sad and my grandad never spoke about his childhood and was a teetotaller all his life - but it had a happy ending really as Barnardo's taught all the children good trades - so later their own families were comparatively well off - grandad was taught to be a baker and he had employment for all his life and kept his family well fed and well looked after. (That's why Barnardo's is my favourite charity.)

I received your messages and I am a member of Ancestry so currently trawling through the records you found for me - it is fascinating reading, and I had to laugh when he was given a reference from someone (can't read name) who said he 'has been in prison for drunkenness and is of course a notorious poacher but is said to be a good shot ... so has the makings of a good soldier ' - mum always said when they visited him (in the 1930s) he always pulled a rabbit out of his trousers that were tied around the knees with string (classic poacher garb) - he gave the rabbit to my grandad as a treat for the family table.

I am so grateful for your help with this research - it is very kind of you.

I am organising/copying it all and working my way through the handwriting which is hard to read in many places - so I guess once we are able, I will take a trip to the archives to compare with the originals and complete the transcripts that way.

Thanks once more

best wishes
Carol
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Re: Hello and military question

Postby carol524459 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:29 pm

one last postscript - on Thomas Judd's enlistment form he gives previous service as 7th Royal Fusiliers 1896 - so I was able to track this record down and in fact he enlisted in 1897 and only served for just over a year - but this is invaluable information as I have a photo of Thomas and his wife Annie and he is in uniform. Up to now I couldn't date it accurately or confirm his regiment as the images are a little blurry. Now I have the date and his regiment confirmed. What a bonus!!
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Re: Hello and military question

Postby gardener » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:57 pm

That's a great bonus!

It might be worth checking FindMyPast as well. They have an entry

Judd
Thomas
1879

1897
British Army Service Records
Hertford Heath, Hertford, Hertfordshire, England

It might be his earlier enlistment details since that is the only year it is indexed by. If you don't have a subscription you could ask here if someone could look at it for you and tell you if it is worth chasing up. No point if it adds nothing extra.
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Re: Hello and military question

Postby carol524459 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:14 pm

yes I do have a subscription there so I'll search using your tip - thanks again
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