Harry William Steer

[pds]

(I have just posted the following the Ancestry.co.uk so please forgive me if you read this there also.)

Hello,

I wonder if anyone might be able to give me any further information about Harry William Steer, based on the following British Army WWI Medal Rolls index card?

STEER Harry W
Corps. Rank. Regt. No.
4/ D Gds. Pte. 3430
R. War. R. 52744
32744
Medal. Roll. Page. Remarks.
VICTORY L/104 B32 6717 Trans. 24/9/17.
BRITISH do do
14 STAR C C/4 64
Treatre of War first served in (blank)
Date of entry therein 21.8.14
Em/2/1884 l.v. 128/d/19/2/21 [hand-written text, transcribed as closely as possible]

The CWGC casualty details show that he died on 6th October 1917, whilst serving with the 15th Batallion Royal Warwickshire Regiment, and is buried in Godewaersvelde British Cemetry. From this I believe that he may have been injured fighting in the batte of Broodseinde on 4th October.

Harry William Steer was my grand-father's cousin. I will be visiting his grave this coming Monday, and am keen to know as much as possible about him before I go (not long, I know). To my knowledge, this will be the first visit by a family member for many years (and perhaps even the first ever).

Many thanks for any assistance that anyone might be able to give.

Best Regards, Phil Steer

[pds]

Just to avoid duplication of effort, he is a reply that I have received to my enquiry on Ancestry.co.uk:

He served first in the 4th Dragoon Guards and was transferred to the 15th Battalion Royal Warwickshire on 24 Sep. 1917. His Commonwealth War Graves citation lists him as a Lance Corporal at the time of his death.
His regimental number in the Dragoon guards was 3430, and he was assigned two different numbers in the 15th. He was awarded the Britsh War Medal, Victory Medal and the 1914 Star.

Here's a link to some information on the 15th Battalion, it was orginally raised in 1914 as one of the "Birmingham Pals" Battalions. They do have the war diaries at Kew for this time period from what I understand.
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forum ... howtopic...

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... catalogu...

The 4th Dragoons are credited with the first shots fired at the Germans in World War 1. This happened on 22 Aug. 1914 near casteau, Mons, France where the 4th engaged german cavalry. There is still a plaque there to commemorate the event. As his card shows 21 Aug. 1914 as his date of entering France, there's a very good possiblity he was there for the first shots of the war.

http://www.battlefields1418.com/casteau.htm

As I wrote in my reply:

It is quite something to think that he may have been there when the first shots of the war were fired; and, at the very least, he was there soon after. I can not imagine what he must have been through in the 3 years before his death, having fought in the war from the start. So sad that he couldn't make it through to the end.

If anyone can anything else to the above, I would be very pleased to hear from you. Many thanks again.

[apowell]

Hi Phil,

I maybe able to add a little extra information but I've checked for his service records and couldn't find them so sadly it looks like they were lost during the Blitz where 60% of the records were destroyed.

If we look at his medal index card it tells us he was part of the original BEF so must have been a regular soldier prior to the outbreak of war or had served prior to 1914 and had been called up from the Reserves (either way a professional soldier at one time). I've just checked the 1911 census which confirmed my hunch he was interestingly a muscian in the 4th Dragoon Guards based at Preston Barracks, Brighton, Surrey.

The medal card confirms he received the 1914 Star, British & Victory medals and the letters and numbers against the medal entries just indicate the reference of the rolls kept. The Em/2/1884 l.v. 128/d/19/2/21 entry i think indicates one or all of the medals were returned by his next of kin on the 19/2/1921 due to some error/s (maybe incorrect detail/s on the medal/s) which needed to be amended. It could have been Harry was added instead of H because if you look at the card the Victory medal entry a dark blue astrix has been added and above in the same colour ink arry has been added to the H. I'm sure his parents wanted to have his first name added instead of just H.

4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon Guards
August 1914 : at Tidworth, part of 2nd Cavalry Brigade in Cavalry Division. Moved to France 16 August.
16 September 1914 : Cavalry Division renamed as 1st Cavalry Division.

1st Cavalry Division
1914
The Battle of Mons (23 August, with subsequent Action of Elouges and Rearguard Action of Solesmes)
The Battle of Le Cateau (26 August, with subsequent Rearguard Affair of Etreux, Affair of Nery and Rearguard Actions of Villers-Cotterets)
The Battle of the Marne
The Battle of the Aisne (12 - 15 September and subsequent Actions on the Aisne Heights)
The Battles of Ypres 1914 ("First Ypres")

1915
Winter Operations 1914-15
The Battles of Ypres 1915 ("Second Ypres")

1916
The Battle of Flers-Courcelette (a phase of the Battles of the Somme 1916)

Royal Warwickshire Regiment
15th (Service) Battalion (2nd Birmingham)
Formed at Birmingham in September 1914 by the Lord Mayor and a local committee.
26 June 1915 : attached to 95th Brigade, 32nd Division.
Landed at Boulogne 21 November 1915.
28 December 1915 : transferred to 14th Brigade, 5th Division.
Transferred to 13th Brigade in same Division 14 January 1916.
Moved to Italy with the Division in November 1917 but returned to France April 1918.
6 October 1918: disbanded with personnel going to 14th and 16th Battalions.

5th Division (13th Brigade)
1917
The Battle of Vimy**
The Attack on La Coulotte**
The Third Battle of the Scarpe** including the Capture by the Division of Oppy Wood
The battles marked ** are phases of the Battles of Arras 1917
The Battle of Polygon Wood***
The Battle of Broodseinde***
The Battle of Poelcapelle***
The Second Battle of Passchendaele***
The battles marked *** are phases of the Third Battle of Ypres

On 7 September 1917 the Division was relieved and moved out of the line for a period, being sent next to join the great offensive in Flanders.

I would think that it was during the above time that Harry was trans' to the 15th Battalion because the Battalion had suffered many losses and needed new replacements for the coming major offensive at Passchendaele.

Yes Harry must have sadly been wounded at the Battle of Broodseinde and died later of his wounds.

We can only wonder at the horrors he must have witnessed being in the thick of the action for so many years.

If you google Battle of Broodseinde you will get lots of links.

Maybe Mark can give you further details on the battle which saw the heavy involvement of Australian and New Zealander troops.

Hope this helps and I'm sure it will be very moving moment for you to visit Harry's grave and my deepest respect to all those who gave their lives.

Please feel free to post a tribute to your relative on our roll of honour section.

Kind regards
Adrian

[pds]

Hi Adrian,

Thank you so much for your reply, and for the time and trouble that you've taken to provide me with all that information. I'd not realised that he was a regular soldier by the age of 16.

His family (father and grand-father) were coal merchants in Woking, Surrey, and I wonder if that gave him an experience of working with horses that led him to joining the Dragoon Guards? (My grand-father, Henry William's cousin, related that his father "was called up for the then Flying Corps in 1914/15 when he spent 3 days at Farnborough only to be kicked out because of very bad feet! They had been injured where he had been trodden on by the family's horses.")

It is interesting to learn that the medals might have been returned for amendment. Your suggesting that this might have been to add the 'arry' to 'H[arry]' sounds very plausible. To my knowledge, he was an only child, and his mother's will passed her estate to her late husband's spinster cousins, who bequeathed their "personal chattels" on to a friend (if you follow). So it seems that the medals have probably passed right out of the family. I wonder where they are now? (rhetorical!)

Would you mind if I just asked a couple of further questions for clarification? Was 24 September 1917 the date that Harry transferred from the Dragoons to the Royal Warwickshire? If so, do you know where he might have fought between the Battle of Flers-Courcelette in 1916 (the last battle that you list for the Dragoons), and this transfer? Also, how might he have had two different service numbers in the space of just a couple of weeks before he was killed?

I wonder whether it is significant that, having survived the entire conflict up to this point, Harry was killed so soon after his transfer? Perhaps just coincidence, but perhaps the change of commrades and environment meant that he lost something of the 'security' (comparatively speaking) in the 'known' that he must have built up over the years?

Once again, very many thanks.

Best Regards, Phil

[MarkCDodd]

There is very little mention of the British forces in the Battle of Broodseinde in most histories as the Anzacs did the majority of the fighting.

Most of the casualties would have been due to German artillery as an insufficient counter battery barrages were undertaken.

Even before leaving the trenches the Anzacs suffered 1 in 7 casualties due to the artillery.

Apart from the amazing amount of ground taken and held, the battle is famous for the only time two opposing armies left their trenches at the same time and met in no mans land.

The Germans launched a counter attack to regain lost ground at the same time as the Anzacs attacked.

The Anzacs handled the surprise better than the Germans and took advantage of their enemies being in the open.

[pds]

There is very little mention of the British forces in the Battle of Broodseinde in most histories as the Anzacs did the majority of the fighting.

Many thanks, Mark, for the information about Broodseinde.

My understanding (from Wikipedia) is that if Harry transferred to the 15th Batallion Royal Warwickshire's on 24 September then he would have been 'just in time for' the battles of Polygon Wood (26-27 September) and Broodseinde (4 October). I'm assuming that he was fatally injured in the latter (rather than the former) only because I understand that casualties did not remain long at the clearing stations (and there was, as I'm sure you know, a clearing station at Godewaersvelde where Harry is buried). I guess he could also have been injured in an 'incident' (e.g. sniper's bullet?) rather than in a named action?

Once again, many thanks.

Best Regards, Phil

[beardie]

terry carter's book on the birmingham pals covers the attacks on polderhoek chateau in detail

[apowell]

Hi Phil,

You pose some very interesting questions:

'I wonder if that gave him an experience of working with horses that led him to joining the Dragoon Guards?'

I think that sounds very likely (see below) because on joining up he would have been able to choose a Regiment and of course his knowledge and interest in horses' may well have drawn him towards the Calvary and Interestingly on the 1911 census he was a musician maybe a bugle boy.

Enlisting into the regular army
A man wishing to join the army could do so providing he passed certain physical tests and was willing to enlist for a number of years. The recruit had to be taller than 5 feet 3 inches and aged between 18 and 38 (although he could not be sent overseas until he was aged 19). He would join at the Regimental Depot or at one of its normal recruiting offices. The man had a choice over the regiment he was assigned to. He would typically join the army for a period of 7 years full time service with the colours, to be followed by another 5 on the National Reserve. (These terms were for infantry: the other arms had slightly different ones. For example, in the artillery it was for 6 years plus 6). When war was declared there were 350,000 former soldiers on the National Reserve, ready to be called back to fill the establishment of their regiments.

'I wonder where they are now (medals)?'

This is a very good question because no-one gave any details to the CWGC regarding Harry so I'm assuming no contact was made to his next of kin so maybe the next of kin had moved address and didn't get any notification. The next of kin must have been contacted at sometime because his medals were issued to someone because they were returned for amendment. Sadly they could have been lost over time or maybe hidden away somewhere ?

'Was 24 September 1917 the date that Harry transferred from the Dragoons to the Royal Warwickshire? Also,how might he have had two different service numbers in the space of just a couple of weeks before he was killed?'

Yes it states this on his medal index card and I think the reason may have been the urgent need of Infantry Regiments for new replacements after suffering terrible casualties during previous bitter fighting. I think it was common for soldiers from Calvary regiments to be transferred to the Infantry because of the static type of warfare on the Western Front. Calvary wasn't much needed and were mostly held in Reserve awaiting for a breakthrough to exploit but this never really happened. I don't think Harry would have had any choice in the matter and the transfer would have been compulsory and on his transfer he would have been assigned a new Reg. No. In 1917 a new way of numbering soldiers was introduced which is confusing but explains why Harry received different Regimental Numbers (also because of his transfer).

Sadly because Harry's service records didn't survive we can't say for certain what his movements were during the war and also what engagements he fought in. We do know his regiment's movements etc but was Harry on leave or sick so absent from his unit at anytime during the war. What we can say is that he would have been involved in some if not all of the engagements.

'I wonder whether it is significant that, having survived the entire conflict up to this point, Harry was killed so soon after his transfer? Perhaps just coincidence, but perhaps the change of commrades and environment meant that he lost something of the 'security' (comparatively speaking) in the 'known' that he must have built up over the years?'

Hard one to answer but given that the Calvary was held in reserve alot of times during the major offensives I would think your chances of surviving in the Calvary was alot higher than if you were in an infantry regiment. I think sadly his chances of survivng was greatly reduced when he was forced to transfer to the infantry.

Hope this helps.

Take care and have a safe journey.
Adrian

[pds]

Very many thanks for your replies, Adrian and 'beardie'. I don't have time to respond properly just now, but will do so when I return.

Best Regards, Phil

[pds]

Just to let you all know that I have now visited Harry's grave in Godewaersvelde with my family (on our way to holiday in the Netherlands).

The cemetry is comparatively small (less than 1000 graves) and is in an attractive and peaceful location by the fields at the edge of the village. The inscription on Harry's gravestone reads:

32744 LANCE CPL.
H. W. STEER
ROYAL WARWICKSHIRE REGT.
6TH OCTOBER 1917 AGE 23

HE SUFFERED
AND DIED HEROICALLY
FOR ALL WHO HE LOVED

Harry is also commemorated on war memorials in both Woking (where he was born) and Datchett (where his parents later lived).

(Incidentally, Adrian, the CWCG does give details of his parents, "James and Emily Steer, of Rose Villa, Slough Rd., Datchet, Bucks." As I mentioned, I believe that Harry was an only child, and I know that Emily's will bequeathed her possessions to her husband's spinster cousins; so it seems likely that the medals went to them, and then out of the family to who knows where.)

Thank you so much again for your help; it made our visit so much more meaningful.

Best Regards, Phil