The Self Fastening Frost Cog
For a balanced picture of Lye Waste we should speak of what I think is one of our greatest achievements namely the self fastening frost cog which is of course meaningless now but in it’s day a marvellous invention. To be fair I don’t think it was actually invented on the Waste, but that is where it was developed in Henry Wooldridge’s factory ( another great Lye name). By this time nail making was becoming less of a cottage industry.
For anyone who doesn’t know, frost nails were used for fixing horseshoes to give the animal a better grip in snow or ice. They were nail with a protruding chisel shaped head. When cogs were introduced they were originally screwed in but were eventually replaced by a forced fit. If one broke it was no longer necessary to go back to the blacksmith to have the whole shoe removed.
Neville Bastable
Lye and Wollescote
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Lye Waste and the self fastening frost cog
by Neville Bastable » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:57 pm
- Neville Bastable
- Posts: 109
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Re: The Lye Pioneers
by linell » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:50 pm
The Lye Pioneers
A Campfire Meeting at Lye Waste in the early 1800’s was to have an explosive impact on the history and legends of the American West as that Century of sudden death unfolded.
Lye Waste in that distant era was known as Mud City – for it’s untidy gaggle of crazy Cottages, which were constructed on the wattle and daub principles of the Ancient Britons. The area was dubbed uncivilised by writers of the period, who cast a hasty glance at its hardy inhabitants, before hurriedly passing on by. But for all that Lye Waste’s citizens were all part of a very tight knit community, of almost tribal closeness. The Harding’s, Pearson’s, Taylors, Hills and Clements had through bitter decades learned to depend on each other for bare survival in a bleak environment, which promised little hope of future improvement.
They did not know it but they were tailor made Immigrants to the New World. Although few of them had ever ventured more than a few miles from their barren birthplace in Lye, the hand of destiny beckoned – in the flamboyant form of Doctor Nathan Gentry. His gaily painted covered – wagon, drawn by prancing white stallions caused quite a stir as it swept into Mud City. Emblazoned on the side of the wagon were slogans such as, ‘America – Land of Opportunity - Passages Arranged To Paradise etc.’
Doc Gentry was the agent for a Liverpool Shipping Company and earned commission for every name he noted in his well thumbed ‘Pioneer Ledger.’ That night he held a Camp Fire Meeting using his considerable vocal talents to paint glowing pictures of life on the American frontier and the opportunities, which awaited those brave enough to grasp them. So persuasive was his oratory that about 30 Lye Waste citizens booked their passages to the ‘Promised Land.’ These names were added to the list of recruits Gentry had already signed up from Tipton and Rowley.
That Black Country contingent possessed many of the qualities, which ideally equipped them for the ‘Frontier life – style.’ As the decades of the 19th Century unfolded, their descendants were to loom large in the legends of the Wild West.
Benjamin Harding, one of the Lye Waste Pioneers, called his son ‘Hardin’ and his Grandson John Wesley Hardin was accorded the accolade ‘The Fastest Gun in the West.’
However that hardy contingent of Black Country born pioneers bred other progeny who made names for themselves (good or bad) as the 19th Century advanced. One of these was ‘Bad Roy Hill.’ He was born during the 1850’s in an Appalachian Mountain settlement, adjacent to the Tennessee border, where most of the Lye Waste pioneers had put down roots and prospered in ‘hill billy’ fashion for a couple of generations. The Hills were known for their stocky build, yellow hair and sudden temper. Back home in Lye they had been skilled chainsmiths and scions of the family’s American dynasty displaying a similar dexterity with firearms. The Hammer was exchanged for a Colt Pistol and the Hills reputation, as ‘fast guns’ became well known.
That Lye Waste contingent proved to be prolific ‘breeders’ and much inter – marriage took place, between the families from the ‘Old Country.’ Indeed it was considered tantamount to treason for any youngster to seek a partner outside the clan! Thus was that powerful Black Country bloodline preserved in purity on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. Inevitably some moved on from the original settlement to Texas, Ohio and California and several other States, but the old blood ties remained strong.
The Legend of ‘Bad Roy Hill’ began in the early 1870’s when he shot and killed a drunken Farmer who had kicked his Dog. He didn’t hang around to face the consequences. Knowing his Country Cousins the Hardin’s lived in Bonham County Texas, Bad Roy began a marathon journey to join his Hardin Cousins. That destiny led him not to Bonham County but to the Outlaw Trail, and a growing reputation as a Gunfighter. He specialised in Stage Hold Ups, a very lucrative pastime in the era of Wells Fargo, who reported 200 such robberies a month.
Contemporary accounts indicate that ‘Bad Roy Hill’ was a complex character. Whilst he killed any man who upset him, without compunction, he could on the other hand display great kindness to the weak and elderly. He had a consuming desire to meet John Wesley Hardin, who’s Gunfighting career paralleled his own. In fact, an editorial in the ‘Commanche Citizen, in August 1874, described them as the two most wanted men in the West.
It is strange that two men of such notoriety could trace their origins back to Lye Waste and that fateful Campfire Meeting held by Doc Gentry three quarters of a Century before!
Whilst Hardin was the most prolific slayer with a career tally of 42. Bad Roy Hill was accredited with a dozen kills before he joined the ‘Collins Gang’ at Black Hill in 1876. On his first job with them he shot the Stage Driver dead, apparently through habit, rather than just cause, and his Outlaw confederates decided that Bad Roy’s association with them should end abruptly, as his ‘sudden’ style could only lead to trouble and a notoriety they were wise enough not to seek. Thereafter, he became a solo operator, drifting from Town to Town, as his tally of victims steadily rose. Like his Country Cousin, John Wesley Hardin, Bad Roy claimed that he never started trouble but was always willing to finish it!
In September 1877 Hardin was sentenced to 25 years hard Labour for killing a Lawman in Commanche. He protested that he only acted in self-defence, but his plea was to no avail. Bad Roy decided to invoke the age old principal ‘An Eye for an Eye’ which he had learned in his Cradle, and decided to hunt down the Texas Rangers responsible for John Wesley Hardin’s arrest.
Bad Roy learned that one of these, John Brennan, was staying in Helena, a busy Montana Cow – Town and confronted him in the Belmont Saloon. As Bad Roy went to fire, a dog running across the Saloon Floor distracted Bad Roy, this enabled Brennan to get his shot off first, The Lawman made no mistake shooting Bad Roy Hill clean through the head, he died instantly. It was ironic that a mongrel dog was involved in Bad Roy’s first slaying and in his own death. Thus his long held wish to meet John Wesley Hardin never materialised.
Hardin was released from Prison in 1894 and several members of the old Lye Waste clan were there to meet him, and welcome him back to the fold. Bad Roy would dearly have loved to have been there, but fate decreed otherwise.
Maybe they eventually met up beyond the Pearly Gates or some hotter region, John Wesley Hardin was dead within 18 months of being released, shot from behind whilst playing cards in the ‘Acme Saloon’ El Paso.
So ends the saga of two deadly Gunfighters with Black Country antecedence. Neither of them made it to old bones, but they certainly crammed a lot of living and dying into their earthly spans……….
A Campfire Meeting at Lye Waste in the early 1800’s was to have an explosive impact on the history and legends of the American West as that Century of sudden death unfolded.
Lye Waste in that distant era was known as Mud City – for it’s untidy gaggle of crazy Cottages, which were constructed on the wattle and daub principles of the Ancient Britons. The area was dubbed uncivilised by writers of the period, who cast a hasty glance at its hardy inhabitants, before hurriedly passing on by. But for all that Lye Waste’s citizens were all part of a very tight knit community, of almost tribal closeness. The Harding’s, Pearson’s, Taylors, Hills and Clements had through bitter decades learned to depend on each other for bare survival in a bleak environment, which promised little hope of future improvement.
They did not know it but they were tailor made Immigrants to the New World. Although few of them had ever ventured more than a few miles from their barren birthplace in Lye, the hand of destiny beckoned – in the flamboyant form of Doctor Nathan Gentry. His gaily painted covered – wagon, drawn by prancing white stallions caused quite a stir as it swept into Mud City. Emblazoned on the side of the wagon were slogans such as, ‘America – Land of Opportunity - Passages Arranged To Paradise etc.’
Doc Gentry was the agent for a Liverpool Shipping Company and earned commission for every name he noted in his well thumbed ‘Pioneer Ledger.’ That night he held a Camp Fire Meeting using his considerable vocal talents to paint glowing pictures of life on the American frontier and the opportunities, which awaited those brave enough to grasp them. So persuasive was his oratory that about 30 Lye Waste citizens booked their passages to the ‘Promised Land.’ These names were added to the list of recruits Gentry had already signed up from Tipton and Rowley.
That Black Country contingent possessed many of the qualities, which ideally equipped them for the ‘Frontier life – style.’ As the decades of the 19th Century unfolded, their descendants were to loom large in the legends of the Wild West.
Benjamin Harding, one of the Lye Waste Pioneers, called his son ‘Hardin’ and his Grandson John Wesley Hardin was accorded the accolade ‘The Fastest Gun in the West.’
However that hardy contingent of Black Country born pioneers bred other progeny who made names for themselves (good or bad) as the 19th Century advanced. One of these was ‘Bad Roy Hill.’ He was born during the 1850’s in an Appalachian Mountain settlement, adjacent to the Tennessee border, where most of the Lye Waste pioneers had put down roots and prospered in ‘hill billy’ fashion for a couple of generations. The Hills were known for their stocky build, yellow hair and sudden temper. Back home in Lye they had been skilled chainsmiths and scions of the family’s American dynasty displaying a similar dexterity with firearms. The Hammer was exchanged for a Colt Pistol and the Hills reputation, as ‘fast guns’ became well known.
That Lye Waste contingent proved to be prolific ‘breeders’ and much inter – marriage took place, between the families from the ‘Old Country.’ Indeed it was considered tantamount to treason for any youngster to seek a partner outside the clan! Thus was that powerful Black Country bloodline preserved in purity on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. Inevitably some moved on from the original settlement to Texas, Ohio and California and several other States, but the old blood ties remained strong.
The Legend of ‘Bad Roy Hill’ began in the early 1870’s when he shot and killed a drunken Farmer who had kicked his Dog. He didn’t hang around to face the consequences. Knowing his Country Cousins the Hardin’s lived in Bonham County Texas, Bad Roy began a marathon journey to join his Hardin Cousins. That destiny led him not to Bonham County but to the Outlaw Trail, and a growing reputation as a Gunfighter. He specialised in Stage Hold Ups, a very lucrative pastime in the era of Wells Fargo, who reported 200 such robberies a month.
Contemporary accounts indicate that ‘Bad Roy Hill’ was a complex character. Whilst he killed any man who upset him, without compunction, he could on the other hand display great kindness to the weak and elderly. He had a consuming desire to meet John Wesley Hardin, who’s Gunfighting career paralleled his own. In fact, an editorial in the ‘Commanche Citizen, in August 1874, described them as the two most wanted men in the West.
It is strange that two men of such notoriety could trace their origins back to Lye Waste and that fateful Campfire Meeting held by Doc Gentry three quarters of a Century before!
Whilst Hardin was the most prolific slayer with a career tally of 42. Bad Roy Hill was accredited with a dozen kills before he joined the ‘Collins Gang’ at Black Hill in 1876. On his first job with them he shot the Stage Driver dead, apparently through habit, rather than just cause, and his Outlaw confederates decided that Bad Roy’s association with them should end abruptly, as his ‘sudden’ style could only lead to trouble and a notoriety they were wise enough not to seek. Thereafter, he became a solo operator, drifting from Town to Town, as his tally of victims steadily rose. Like his Country Cousin, John Wesley Hardin, Bad Roy claimed that he never started trouble but was always willing to finish it!
In September 1877 Hardin was sentenced to 25 years hard Labour for killing a Lawman in Commanche. He protested that he only acted in self-defence, but his plea was to no avail. Bad Roy decided to invoke the age old principal ‘An Eye for an Eye’ which he had learned in his Cradle, and decided to hunt down the Texas Rangers responsible for John Wesley Hardin’s arrest.
Bad Roy learned that one of these, John Brennan, was staying in Helena, a busy Montana Cow – Town and confronted him in the Belmont Saloon. As Bad Roy went to fire, a dog running across the Saloon Floor distracted Bad Roy, this enabled Brennan to get his shot off first, The Lawman made no mistake shooting Bad Roy Hill clean through the head, he died instantly. It was ironic that a mongrel dog was involved in Bad Roy’s first slaying and in his own death. Thus his long held wish to meet John Wesley Hardin never materialised.
Hardin was released from Prison in 1894 and several members of the old Lye Waste clan were there to meet him, and welcome him back to the fold. Bad Roy would dearly have loved to have been there, but fate decreed otherwise.
Maybe they eventually met up beyond the Pearly Gates or some hotter region, John Wesley Hardin was dead within 18 months of being released, shot from behind whilst playing cards in the ‘Acme Saloon’ El Paso.
So ends the saga of two deadly Gunfighters with Black Country antecedence. Neither of them made it to old bones, but they certainly crammed a lot of living and dying into their earthly spans……….
-
linell - Posts: 5054
- Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:50 am
- Location: Stafford
The Naming of 'Cog' Baby
by linell » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:01 pm
The Naming of 'Cog' Baby
Early in the 19th Century Lye Waste (alias Mud City) was dubbed ‘Heathendom’ by a visiting Cleric, who declared that it’s grimy citizens had progressed little since the days of the Ancient Britons.
In 1870 an erstwhile Reporter from the ‘Good Words’ was sent to investigate the natives of Lye Waste. After firstly visiting Halesowen and Sedgley he travelled to Lye Waste, armed with the knowledge that strangers were not welcome there! But determined to learn all he could about the Lye Waste Tribe.
Before attempting to penetrate the interior, he encamped at Cradley, a slightly more civilised place. There he was warned that he would be stoned if he dared to enter Lye Waste without prior permission. His informant was a Cradley man, educated enough to possess a small library which he put at the disposal of the roving reporter. Here the Reporter learnt from a book of local Poems how to worm his way into Mud City and managed to closely investigate the curious customs of the place. He ruminated much on the nick – names of it’s various inhabitants, publishing a long list of these, which included the following: -
Pighook, Taypot, Blackbats, Tacker, Croaker, Dragon, Crackback, Bummer, Smacker and Ding.
He emphasised the point that Christian names were seldom if ever used, and many of the Lye Waste inhabitants had great difficulty in remembering their proper surnames!
However he was successful in discovering at least two of the proper names of those listed above, for he wrote:-
‘I can perfectly understand why a man named Nightingale should be nicknamed Bird, but why is a man christened Southall known as Smacker, and a man called Pearson, known as Ding?’
He illustrated his point concerning the rare use of Christian names by quoting from the volume of poetry loaned to him whilst he was in Cradley. The poem written by ‘A Cradley Bog Pudding’ tells the story of a young Lye Waste Nailer named Cog Round who is married to a Nailstress from the district known as Molly. Cog is determined that their offspring should have a proper Christian name and the Poem reproduced below tells how he sets about achieving this: -
THE NAMING OF COG BABY
At length Moll borned a fine wench
Who, Cog swore would have a name
For he, nor any of his family had,
Which made some folks cry ‘shame’
So Cog axed a neighbouring parson,
If any objection he got
To give a name to the young bairn
Which had lately come to his lot.
The Parson consented and came
And Cog capered like one wild,
And called out to Molly upstairs,
The mon cum ter christen the child.
Well then, axed the mon in the parlour,
An, I’ll be downstairs in a minnit,
An fetch the wench in with the child
So the mon can prepare to begin it.
The Priest asked what name they decided,
But both Molly and Cog did declare,
We mun leave it entirely to yoe,
For we’ strangers to names about here.
Perhaps a scripture name you’d prefer?
Why says Cog, I’ve no choice at all,
But perhaps, said the mon, Your wife has?
But the devil a word spoke Moll.
Says the Parson, - What think you of Ben?
Are, says Cog, that’ll do well enough.
So, to christen the child he prepared
With some water from an old trough.
So they christened it Ben, you must know,
And when all the ceremony was o’er,
The Parson, he gave them his blessing
And wished them good morn at the door.
But as soon as the portal was closed,
Molly bawls, as she sits on the bench.
Yoe fule, yo’ve had it called Ben,
When yoe knows very well it’s a wench.
Why the devil, said Cog date yer spake,
Befower the mon went away
When the mon axed yer wot it should be
Not the devil a word did yer say.
Cog searched but no parson could find,
And returned in a mad sullen mood,
Shouting Moll, all would have bin right
If yoe’d opened yer mouth when yoe shood.
Poor Molly so modest before,
In great fury at Cog she flies,
And Cog for to finish the scene,
Furnished Moll with a pair of black eyes.
Perhaps at these manners you’ll laugh
But surely you’ll not be surprised
When I tell you that this was the first
That was in this Village baptised.
But in this great age of improvement,
For refinement, it seems, they’ve a taste,
And who knows, in a Century to come
No place, may shine - like Lye Waste.
Early in the 19th Century Lye Waste (alias Mud City) was dubbed ‘Heathendom’ by a visiting Cleric, who declared that it’s grimy citizens had progressed little since the days of the Ancient Britons.
In 1870 an erstwhile Reporter from the ‘Good Words’ was sent to investigate the natives of Lye Waste. After firstly visiting Halesowen and Sedgley he travelled to Lye Waste, armed with the knowledge that strangers were not welcome there! But determined to learn all he could about the Lye Waste Tribe.
Before attempting to penetrate the interior, he encamped at Cradley, a slightly more civilised place. There he was warned that he would be stoned if he dared to enter Lye Waste without prior permission. His informant was a Cradley man, educated enough to possess a small library which he put at the disposal of the roving reporter. Here the Reporter learnt from a book of local Poems how to worm his way into Mud City and managed to closely investigate the curious customs of the place. He ruminated much on the nick – names of it’s various inhabitants, publishing a long list of these, which included the following: -
Pighook, Taypot, Blackbats, Tacker, Croaker, Dragon, Crackback, Bummer, Smacker and Ding.
He emphasised the point that Christian names were seldom if ever used, and many of the Lye Waste inhabitants had great difficulty in remembering their proper surnames!
However he was successful in discovering at least two of the proper names of those listed above, for he wrote:-
‘I can perfectly understand why a man named Nightingale should be nicknamed Bird, but why is a man christened Southall known as Smacker, and a man called Pearson, known as Ding?’
He illustrated his point concerning the rare use of Christian names by quoting from the volume of poetry loaned to him whilst he was in Cradley. The poem written by ‘A Cradley Bog Pudding’ tells the story of a young Lye Waste Nailer named Cog Round who is married to a Nailstress from the district known as Molly. Cog is determined that their offspring should have a proper Christian name and the Poem reproduced below tells how he sets about achieving this: -
THE NAMING OF COG BABY
At length Moll borned a fine wench
Who, Cog swore would have a name
For he, nor any of his family had,
Which made some folks cry ‘shame’
So Cog axed a neighbouring parson,
If any objection he got
To give a name to the young bairn
Which had lately come to his lot.
The Parson consented and came
And Cog capered like one wild,
And called out to Molly upstairs,
The mon cum ter christen the child.
Well then, axed the mon in the parlour,
An, I’ll be downstairs in a minnit,
An fetch the wench in with the child
So the mon can prepare to begin it.
The Priest asked what name they decided,
But both Molly and Cog did declare,
We mun leave it entirely to yoe,
For we’ strangers to names about here.
Perhaps a scripture name you’d prefer?
Why says Cog, I’ve no choice at all,
But perhaps, said the mon, Your wife has?
But the devil a word spoke Moll.
Says the Parson, - What think you of Ben?
Are, says Cog, that’ll do well enough.
So, to christen the child he prepared
With some water from an old trough.
So they christened it Ben, you must know,
And when all the ceremony was o’er,
The Parson, he gave them his blessing
And wished them good morn at the door.
But as soon as the portal was closed,
Molly bawls, as she sits on the bench.
Yoe fule, yo’ve had it called Ben,
When yoe knows very well it’s a wench.
Why the devil, said Cog date yer spake,
Befower the mon went away
When the mon axed yer wot it should be
Not the devil a word did yer say.
Cog searched but no parson could find,
And returned in a mad sullen mood,
Shouting Moll, all would have bin right
If yoe’d opened yer mouth when yoe shood.
Poor Molly so modest before,
In great fury at Cog she flies,
And Cog for to finish the scene,
Furnished Moll with a pair of black eyes.
Perhaps at these manners you’ll laugh
But surely you’ll not be surprised
When I tell you that this was the first
That was in this Village baptised.
But in this great age of improvement,
For refinement, it seems, they’ve a taste,
And who knows, in a Century to come
No place, may shine - like Lye Waste.
-
linell - Posts: 5054
- Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:50 am
- Location: Stafford
Re: Lye and Wollescote
by Neville Bastable » Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:21 am
Congratulations Linell. What a wonderful lot of info you have found on the American connection. I didn’t know half of that.
Mind you, the stories from Cradley people when describing Lye Waste people can be a mite exaggerated.although I'm sure meant in humour and I speak as a Cradley man myself
Thanks again,
Neville
Mind you, the stories from Cradley people when describing Lye Waste people can be a mite exaggerated.although I'm sure meant in humour and I speak as a Cradley man myself
Thanks again,
Neville
- Neville Bastable
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:58 am
Re: Lye and Wollescote
by linell » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:07 pm
Neville Bastable wrote:Mind you, the stories from Cradley people when describing Lye Waste people can be a mite exaggerated.although I'm sure meant in humour and I speak as a Cradley man myself
Thanks again,
Neville
Yes Neville, think there was some light hearted banter between Cradley and the Lye Wasters, after all Lye Waste was on Cradley's door step so to speak. I never ventured there myself did you? Best Wishes from Linell.
-
linell - Posts: 5054
- Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:50 am
- Location: Stafford
Re: Lye and Wollescote
by Neville Bastable » Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:13 pm
The Lye Waste and area continued.....
Oh Yes Linell, my very first job was in a 19th Century Waste pub converted for industrial use. Also I used to have a girlfriend who lived at Wollescote.Quite seperate from that I had pals in Chapel Street and we used to have parties there. I used to enjoy walking, still do and when I lived in the area I regularly trecked over Two Gates and Oldnall Road and down through Careless Green or perhaps Cemetary Road. My Grandmother came from that area and sometimes spoke of her youth. She was very loyal to the Lye and wanted to go back and be buried there after her death with all her ancestors. a wish that I'm afraid my grandfather didn't honour. It must be something in the genes because I have always been drawn to the Lye and the Waste. I was born in Overend, Cradley and we moved over the River Stour into Barrs Road Cradley Heath, although I've now lived in Kidderminster for a number of years. I seem to remember you came from the Hawne area of Halesowen so you would know the whereabouts of the roads I've mentioned. My 4 times greatgrandparents William and Esther Bastable lived at Hawne in the 18th Century.
Neville
.
Oh Yes Linell, my very first job was in a 19th Century Waste pub converted for industrial use. Also I used to have a girlfriend who lived at Wollescote.Quite seperate from that I had pals in Chapel Street and we used to have parties there. I used to enjoy walking, still do and when I lived in the area I regularly trecked over Two Gates and Oldnall Road and down through Careless Green or perhaps Cemetary Road. My Grandmother came from that area and sometimes spoke of her youth. She was very loyal to the Lye and wanted to go back and be buried there after her death with all her ancestors. a wish that I'm afraid my grandfather didn't honour. It must be something in the genes because I have always been drawn to the Lye and the Waste. I was born in Overend, Cradley and we moved over the River Stour into Barrs Road Cradley Heath, although I've now lived in Kidderminster for a number of years. I seem to remember you came from the Hawne area of Halesowen so you would know the whereabouts of the roads I've mentioned. My 4 times greatgrandparents William and Esther Bastable lived at Hawne in the 18th Century.
Neville
.
- Neville Bastable
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:58 am
Re: Lye and Wollescote
by Neville Bastable » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:25 pm
Briefly returning to the history of Lye Waste, firstly the social life, there were of course plenty of pubs and probably pigeon racing went on and there were stories of prize fighting and also dog fights but I have no evidence to prove or disprove the truth of that.
Then as regards education the little there was had been provided by the churches until the education act of 1870 when of course education became compulsory for all children although I read it wasn’t until 1882 Schools were built on the Waste, 3 in number with another one added 15 years later. Up until then it was normal for children at quite an early age to be involved in nail making. A study of the successive censuses makes interesting reading.
Neville Bastable
Then as regards education the little there was had been provided by the churches until the education act of 1870 when of course education became compulsory for all children although I read it wasn’t until 1882 Schools were built on the Waste, 3 in number with another one added 15 years later. Up until then it was normal for children at quite an early age to be involved in nail making. A study of the successive censuses makes interesting reading.
Neville Bastable
- Neville Bastable
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:58 am
Re: Lye and Wollescote
by linell » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:38 pm
Hi Neville, yes we did live in Hawne, until I was 12, then we moved to Hasbury. I also used to walk up Two Gates, along Oldnall to Careless Green, it was quite lovely then and very rural, I never associate Wollescote with The Waste, when did they demolish the Mud Houses? My Nan, Edith Worton was from Overend, her cousin Miss Florrie Jenkins a Teacher lived in Barrs Road do you remember her at all? Best Wishes from Linell.
-
linell - Posts: 5054
- Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:50 am
- Location: Stafford
Re: Lye and Wollescote
by Neville Bastable » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:11 am
The mud houses had all gone I think Linell although some seemed very ancient when I roamed the area. I don't think I knew the lady you mentioned although of course it was a very long road. We were almost at the bottom, the Corngreaves Road end.
I have spoken of a few Lye Waste families from whom I claim descent so may I turn to the other end of the town, a place you may know called Mears Coppice a name derived, I’m told from the Old English word “maere†meaning a boundary (a name that’s seen again and again of course around the countryside usually demarcating an ancient parish or county boundary).
The Robinsons, a mining family lived in cottages at Mears Coppice and my great grandfather Zenas Bingham married a member of the clan namely Hannah Maria Robinson. What is interesting I think is that when the cottages in the Coppice were demolished I understand from my cousin who did the research, the basis of a number of them were found to be built from dried mud like those on the Waste.
My mother’s family always described that area as Lye Wood, although in fact actually being on the side of the River Stour in Quarry Bank,Staffordshire not Lye, Worcestershire of course. A track ran from the Thorns/ Dudley Road across to Dunn’s Bank if you know that area.
Neville
I have spoken of a few Lye Waste families from whom I claim descent so may I turn to the other end of the town, a place you may know called Mears Coppice a name derived, I’m told from the Old English word “maere†meaning a boundary (a name that’s seen again and again of course around the countryside usually demarcating an ancient parish or county boundary).
The Robinsons, a mining family lived in cottages at Mears Coppice and my great grandfather Zenas Bingham married a member of the clan namely Hannah Maria Robinson. What is interesting I think is that when the cottages in the Coppice were demolished I understand from my cousin who did the research, the basis of a number of them were found to be built from dried mud like those on the Waste.
My mother’s family always described that area as Lye Wood, although in fact actually being on the side of the River Stour in Quarry Bank,Staffordshire not Lye, Worcestershire of course. A track ran from the Thorns/ Dudley Road across to Dunn’s Bank if you know that area.
Neville
- Neville Bastable
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Re: Lye and Wollescote
by linell » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:30 am
Hi Neville, I do not really know the Quarry Bank area, except where it runs into Cradley Forge, Hammer Bank, where about's was Dunns Bank exactly? Best Wishes Linell.
-
linell - Posts: 5054
- Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:50 am
- Location: Stafford
Re: Lye and Wollescote
by Neville Bastable » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:29 am
Linell, Dunn’s Bank is on the Netherend end of Cradley, via Mogul Lane, over the Stour turn left,
alternatively via Maypole Fields from Cradley Forge. It runs down from the end of Park Road, Quarry Bank and the area is now so built up I’d probably get lost myself now.
If you are not already aware of it you might like to try:-
http://www.victorianlondon.org/publicat ... nge-28.htm
Have a happy Easter,
Neville
alternatively via Maypole Fields from Cradley Forge. It runs down from the end of Park Road, Quarry Bank and the area is now so built up I’d probably get lost myself now.
If you are not already aware of it you might like to try:-
http://www.victorianlondon.org/publicat ... nge-28.htm
Have a happy Easter,
Neville
- Neville Bastable
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Re: Lye and Wollescote
by linell » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:00 pm
Hi Neville, Dunns Bank, I know exactly where you mean, down Mogul Lane and across the Stour, turn left, I didn't realise it was that close to Cradley, near Hammer Bank then. Thanks very much for the Victorian Traveller's article, wealth of information there, just had a quick read, will have to print it all off. Happy Easter to you too, all best wishes from Linell.
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linell - Posts: 5054
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- Location: Stafford
Re: Lye and Wollescote
by CRAIGLETS » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:55 am
My family came from the Lye area and were Wesleyan Methodist ministers and church whatevers. We have an old family diary which lists many names and the writer is constantly referring to"Went to the Lye today, all is well" and things like that.
Now I realize that it wasn't the name of his house or farm, makes it more interesting!!
Have lots of names mentioned in this diary that I have no idea as to who they are, but most of them are I beleive to be parishners that have died and were buried. Being a Reverend and such, I think my ancestor just felt the need to write it down somewhere.
Liz
Now I realize that it wasn't the name of his house or farm, makes it more interesting!!
Have lots of names mentioned in this diary that I have no idea as to who they are, but most of them are I beleive to be parishners that have died and were buried. Being a Reverend and such, I think my ancestor just felt the need to write it down somewhere.
Liz
- CRAIGLETS
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:08 pm
Re: Lye and Wollescote
by Northern Lass » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:17 am
CRAIGLETS wrote:My family came from the Lye area and were Wesleyan Methodist ministers and church whatevers. We have an old family diary which lists many names and the writer is constantly referring to"Went to the Lye today, all is well" and things like that.
Now I realize that it wasn't the name of his house or farm, makes it more interesting!!
Have lots of names mentioned in this diary that I have no idea as to who they are, but most of them are I beleive to be parishners that have died and were buried. Being a Reverend and such, I think my ancestor just felt the need to write it down somewhere.
Liz
H Craiglets
this diary sounds fascinating we could run with some of the unknowns in there and place them on the tree!
that would be really interesting!
Can you post some of them in the Black Country Genealogy section......a seperate post for each name....we can then find out info who, what ,...and where.....and add it to our Connections tree too!
Rite ready and waiting for the first one!
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Northern Lass - Posts: 45856
- Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:12 am
Re: Lye and Wollescote
by linell » Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:17 am
Hi Craiglets, I echo what NL has posted, would be fascinating if you could post some of the Diary. I also have notes on the history of the Stourbridge Circuit Wesleyan Chapels, names of the Minister's Trustee's etc. The story of Mr & Mrs Bowater's trials and tribulations to get a Methodist Chapel in Lye are on here, also have details on Stourbridge, Cradley, Kingswinford, Brierley Hill, Kinver, Clent, Brockmoor and Bromley. Linell.
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linell - Posts: 5054
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- Location: Stafford
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