Seeking Some Guidance

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Seeking Some Guidance

Postby Foss » Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:58 am

Hi all
Over the last 9 months or so I have been searching out my and my wife's ancestors. I have made good progress and am enjoying the searching immensely. So far I have got my direct family line back some 5 generations as well as many of my wife's ancestors (including all the GRO certificates) but I am having some difficulties with my wife's Welsh grandmother's (Catherine Lloyd) records. As I am still a relative novice at this, I am hoping someone could give me some pointers on how to progress my search.

The details I have found so far:

Marriage Certificate from the GRO shows:
Married on 5 May 1919 in Merthyr Tydfil, Wales to John Walter Lloyd. Her name is recorded as Catherine Wadeley.
He was 22, a bachelor and she was 23, a widow.
His father's name was John Walter Lloyd but a name has been written in (Patrick Carey) then crossed through (I am presuming that the register made a mistake and crossed it out as it was not correct ?)

Catherine's daughter's (my wife's mother) Birth Certificate from the GRO shows 'Mothers maiden name' as 'Catherine Lloyd Late Wadeley formerly Morgans'.

I have been unable to find any record/details at all of her first marriage to a Mr Wadeley ! It could have been a WW1 marriage and he may have been killed in the war but have not been able to find anything.

I thought I was at a brick wall then found on The 1939 Register from Findmypast (fmp) Catherine Lloyd (birthdate 12/7/1896) & John Lloyd (birthdate 10/8/1896) living in Merthyr Tydfil. This birthdate for Catherine Lloyd (Morgans) is the only link I have to find and confirm her birth record.

FreeBMD has 3 records for Catherine Morgans in the September Qtr of 1896 that could be her :
MORGANS Catherine, Carmarthen district, 11a 1135
MORGANS Catherine Ann, Swansea district, 11a 959
MORGANS Catherine Mary, Neath district, 11a 902

My first question - is there any website or other process that could help me narrow down which Catherine Morgans is her without me paying for 3 Birth Certificates from the GRO when I only want one certificate.

Second question is for some hints on where I could look to try to find Catherine Morgans 1st marriage to Mr Wadeley.

To date, I have been using FreeBMD & fmp (purchased credits) to find family and these have proved good (except for the above !!!).

Hope this has not been too longwinded and that someone can give me some assistance. Also hope I have posted this is in the correct section of the forum.
Thanks in advance.
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Re: Seeking Some Guidance

Postby gardener » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:10 am

Hi (welcome)

Is there no father written down for Catherine on the wedding certificate?

I looked on FreeBMD for a death for Mr Wadeley and none of them seemed to fit so I tried the Commonwealth War Graves site http://www.cwgc.org and there is a James Massey Wadeley who died in1916.

Ancestry has medal entries for him, and also
UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929 for James Massey Wadeley
it mentions a war gratuity and a widow Kathleen Lloyd - the date is 18/10/19 so it is just possible that this is her but with the wrong first name.

James is in the 1911 census in Merthyr Tydfil, and also in Wales in 1901 (transcribed as Wadeloy) with what might be his father.

The only marriage though is this one

Marriages Mar 1914
ADLEN Kathleen Wadeley Merthyr T 11a 1070
Davies Blodwen Phillips Merthyr T. 11a 1070
Phillips William T Davies Merthyr T. 11a 1070
Wadeley James M Adlen Merthyr T. 11a 1070

and that has Kathleen again so perhaps it is all a red herring? I posted it just to save anyone else going the same route :roll:
"The present is the key to the past" - Charles Lyell
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Re: Seeking Some Guidance

Postby Jimmy » Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:04 am

Ancestry,

James Massey Wadeley.
Birth Place: Hedgeford, Staffs.
Death Date: 18 Jul 1916.
Death Place: France and Flanders.
Enlistment Place: Merthyr.
Rank: Private.
Regiment: Welsh Regiment.
Battalion: 2nd Battalion.
Regimental Number: 19192.
Type of Casualty: Killed in action.
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre.
Jimmy.

Now that i'm what you could describe as an older person i've stopped eating health foods.
I need all the preservatives I can get.
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Re: Seeking Some Guidance

Postby Foss » Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:14 pm

Thanks for your replies.
Just realised that I hadn't been very specific with Catherine's marriage to John Lloyd. It was her father's name that did not show on the marriage certificate, so the link back to him is not there. The only link I can think of is her birthdate.
I may have to just order the 3 GRO birth certificates to confirm which one is the Catherine Morgan's I am looking for.

I did find the James Wadeley/Adlen marriage and discounted it as the name did not fit. Also found the James Wadeley war details but also discounted as marriage did not fit.
I may have to just forget the Wadeley/Morgan's marriage and concentrate on Catherine Morgan's ancestors.

Thank you for your replies.
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Re: Seeking Some Guidance

Postby peterd » Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:29 am

who were the witnesses on the marriage cert ?
A person should have an opinion on everything, It becomes tact whether you reveal that opinion or not.

http://www.deneview.co.uk/
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Re: Seeking Some Guidance

Postby Foss » Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:59 am

Witnesses at marriage were Catherine Quinn and David Evans.
Marriage was at The Register Office, Merthyr Tydfil.

I also forgot to mention before that I have been unable to find Catherine Lloyds death record. I have previously ordered 2 GRO certificates and both were not her - both had wrong husbands ( 1964 Mar Merthyr T 8b 489 and 1967 Mar Pontypridd 8b 587). My wife thinks she died sometime between 1959 and 1972 but I have looked and can't find anything. Might have to leave that for another time.
I have been starting to feel she doesn't want to be found !!!

Thanks for any help
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Re: Seeking Some Guidance

Postby SRD » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:19 am

Don't forget that most Public Libraries (if you can find one after all the cuts) carry Ancestry on their computers, you might find records there that aren't on FMP.
Currently investigating the Hillmans of Sussex.
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Re: Seeking Some Guidance

Postby gardener » Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:53 pm

There is a death registered which might rule out one of the births, hard to tell

Deaths Sep 1896
Morgans Catherine 0 Carmarthen 11a 581


Marriage Certificate from the GRO shows:
Married on 5 May 1919 in Merthyr Tydfil, Wales to John Walter Lloyd. Her name is recorded as Catherine Wadeley.
He was 22, a bachelor and she was 23, a widow.
His father's name was John Walter Lloyd but a name has been written in (Patrick Carey) then crossed through (I am presuming that the register made a mistake and crossed it out as it was not correct ?)

Catherine's daughter's (my wife's mother) Birth Certificate from the GRO shows 'Mothers maiden name' as 'Catherine Lloyd Late Wadeley formerly Morgans'.

I thought I was at a brick wall then found on The 1939 Register from Findmypast (fmp) Catherine Lloyd (birthdate 12/7/1896) & John Lloyd (birthdate 10/8/1896) living in Merthyr Tydfil. This birthdate for Catherine Lloyd (Morgans) is the only link I have to find and confirm her birth record.


If they married in May 1919 then they should both have been 22 years old. The birth date given for Catherine does not quite match her age on marriage.

I also forgot to mention before that I have been unable to find Catherine Lloyds death record. I have previously ordered 2 GRO certificates and both were not her - both had wrong husbands ( 1964 Mar Merthyr T 8b 489 and 1967 Mar Pontypridd 8b 587). My wife thinks she died sometime between 1959 and 1972 but I have looked and can't find anything. Might have to leave that for another time. I have been starting to feel she doesn't want to be found !!!


Do you have John Walter Lloyd's death certificate? Does that indicate that Catherine was still alive at the time?
"The present is the key to the past" - Charles Lyell
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Re: Seeking Some Guidance

Postby Foss » Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:35 am

SRT - I am in Australia. I will have to check if Aussie Libraries have Ancestry. Thanks

Gardener - hadn't thought about looking at deaths in 1896. Could well discount the Carmarthen record. May only need to get 2 GRO certificates now. Thanks
Yes her age looks to be wrong on the Marriage Cert but the 1939 Register address is the same as where John Lloyd died - see below. Am sure 1939 Register record is her and therefore birthdate.
Yes I do have the death certificate for John Walter Lloyd. He died on 20 December 1959 in Merthyr Tydfil, age 63 and Catherine Lloyd was the informant. He died at 47 Brondeg, Heolgerrig which is the same address as the 1939 Register record address and address shown for Catherine as informant.
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Re: Seeking Some Guidance

Postby peterd » Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:08 am

all i can think of is an Electrol register search on this address see who there from 1959 onwards (47 Brondeg, Heolgerrig) local council at Merthyr Yydfil should hold them


some of this might help

http://www.archiveswales.org.uk/anw/sea ... les&page=2
A person should have an opinion on everything, It becomes tact whether you reveal that opinion or not.

http://www.deneview.co.uk/
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Re: Seeking Some Guidance

Postby peterd » Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:26 am

A person should have an opinion on everything, It becomes tact whether you reveal that opinion or not.

http://www.deneview.co.uk/
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Re: Seeking Some Guidance

Postby Foss » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:54 am

Thank you vOu very much for the links. Will have a look and see what I can find.
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