*Archived * -Alice Unknown 24/12/08

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*Archived * -Alice Unknown 24/12/08

Postby mumbles » Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:57 pm

Thought I would leave this one for you until I return on 6th January

2) Alice Unknown born 1872 RR married a Joseph Tromans born 1871 RR son of Arthur Tromans and Ellen Hingley. inserted by Manc
Two Possibilities :- a) Married Alice Harper in 1891 Dudley 6c page 123 September quartile
This ties up with ages of eldest child Samuel Tromans born RR 1892 and fact that in 1891 Census Alice Harper was living with her father
b) Alice Maria Billingham born Gainsborough Lincs. ( 1891 Census) or Gainsboro Staffs. On earlier Census returns .married a Joseph Tromans in December quartile of 1888 Dudley vol.6c page 64 Check shows born 1869 which does not tie up with 1901 Census age for Agnes Unknown or with age of eldest child.
Suggest a) is correct marriage but with one slight doubt as cannot find Joseph on 1891 Census ( not with parents) which would prove not married until after Census in 1891 as with Alice Harper
Thanks for help with previous Unknowns as you have not failed yet despite some real tree light entanglements.
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Re: Alice Unknown 24/12/08

Postby Northern Lass » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:29 am

I agree Mumbles that it is the first marriage.
On the 1901 a Joseph Tromans and Alice m are in RR and the kids just dont fit.
I think that couple are these two.

1888
BILLINGHAM Alice M TROMANS Joseph Dudley, St Thomas Dudley Register Office 204/039/334

Living next door is a Thomas Billingham age 23.

really need a look up on this marriage just to see who parents are.
But I think it is the Harper one.
I can look that one up when I go to sandwell.

1891
HARPER Alice TROMANS Joseph Rowley Regis, St Giles Sandwell Register Office 18/8/49
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Re: Alice Unknown 24/12/08

Postby Northern Lass » Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:47 am

On the 1901 census we have Joseph and this Alice living next door or rather in the same Household as an Ellen Harper.
also at no 8 is a Reuben Tromans...not sure who his father was but Arthur ( Josephs dad had Reuben as a bro)
then at no 9 we have Barnet tromans his father should be an Isaac.


1901 census
9 Peartree St Old Hill RRegis
Joseph Tromans h m 30 Coal Hewer workder b RR
Alice Wife m 29
Samuel son 9
Alice M dau 7
Annie E Tromans dau 5
Mary M dau 3
Sarah dau 1
Mary Ann Priest serv 13

So I think that proves that Alice is a Harper...what do we all think?

can we just verify that Ellen is Alice's ma?
or some kind of rellie?
1891 census?
where is Alice
who are her parents?


here is the Joseph Tromans and alice on BCC
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =542076485

:?
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Re: Alice Unknown 24/12/08

Postby Northern Lass » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:28 pm

I think that is Alice's step mother that Ellen.

On the 1891 census father Joseph is living at 26 peartree st Old hill
Widower
age 61.

1895
HARPER Joseph TIBBETTS Ellen Dudley, St Andrew Dudley Register Office 205/010/232

and look at that a Tibbetts!
or was she married to one.

So I am going with Harper as Alices name
anyone disagree?
:?
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Re: Alice Unknown 24/12/08

Postby Northern Lass » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:38 pm

This looks like his death

Deaths Dec 1900 Harper Joseph 71 Dudley 6c 10
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Re: Alice Unknown 24/12/08

Postby peterd » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:47 pm

Northern Lass wrote:I think that is Alice's step mother that Ellen.

On the 1891 census father Joseph is living at 26 peartree st Old hill
Widower
age 61.

1895
HARPER Joseph TIBBETTS Ellen Dudley, St Andrew Dudley Register Office 205/010/232

and look at that a Tibbetts!
or was she married to one.

So I am going with Harper as Alices name
anyone disagree?
:?




when was ellen born is this her first marriage ?


TIBBETTS Joseph WESTWOOD Ellen 1868 Dudley, St Thomas West Midlands Dudley Register Office 204/026/21
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Re: Alice Unknown 24/12/08

Postby Northern Lass » Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:25 pm

I think that Alices parents are a Joseph Harper and Maria Priest.
some one on ances has this Alice as the dau of the above.

But I couldnt find a marriage
but in 1871 the couple are there at Peartree lane with a load of Russ kids so found this...

1864
HARPER Joseph RUSS Maria Pensnett, St Mark Dudley Register Office 214/002/198

Then found this

1853
RUSS Robert PRIEST Maria Dudley, St Edmund Dudley Register Office 201/002/68

So I think we can discount the Billingham marriage ie
Joseph Tromans to Alice M Billingham
as on the 1901 census they are with there kids totally different kids than the other Joseph Tromans and Alice Harper.
Plus on the 1901 the Joseph with Alice M the age is different she is b 1869 not 1872 and she is from a different area and she has a Thomas Billingham living next door.

The one we have been looking at on BCC she is b 1872 and RRegis.
She is living with Husband Joseph Tromans and kids in 1901 Peartree st and in the same household is an Ellen Harper ( her step mother I think see marriage in 1895 Ellen Tibbetts and Joseph Harper)
Joseph dies in 1900 so that fits with her being a widow

Going back on the census 1891 Joseph Harper is a Widower/1881 with a Maria/1871 with a Maria and son John Harper age 19- so Joseph must have been prev married-so must this Maria to a Russ....(see marriage before).

Will add this to Connections tree and post link.
Would appreciate someone just checking this and letting me know if they agree with what I have found
I will add some look ups too!
:?
(nb on 1881 Census at Birmingham Rd Old Hill-
one of the kids a Joseph Harper b 1870 dies 1872
HARPER Joseph 3 Dudley 6c 5
and another Joseph is on the 1881 census age 6 so b abt 1875-so 2 Josephs to this couple)
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Re: Alice Unknown 24/12/08

Postby Northern Lass » Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:41 pm

2 deaths that could be Maria- she is b abt 1834?

Deaths Jun 1883 HARPER Maria 50 Dudley 6c 66

Deaths Mar 1890 Harper Maria 58 Dudley 6c 21

would think the first one...but not sure....need to confirm Marias dob on all census.
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Re: Alice Unknown 24/12/08

Postby Northern Lass » Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:11 pm

I think Joseph first marries a Sarah Davis...
2 marriages to choose but on the 1861 census at Peartree lane he is with a Sarah
and next door is a William Davis

1850
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
HARPER Joseph DAINTY Sarah Sedgley, All Saints Dudley Register Office 216/006/154
HARPER Joseph DAVIES Sarah Sedgley, All Saints Dudley Register Office 216/006/328
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Re: Alice Unknown 24/12/08

Postby Northern Lass » Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:00 pm

Put as much as I can on BCC here....

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =556436374

So think this may be completed....re who is Alice?
I will confirm re look ups too...so unless anyone wishes to add anything further or has any thoughts on this I will archive pending look ups

Please do dive in!

:grin:

moving to archived within 24 hrs.
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