*Archived* -Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby Northern Lass » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:33 pm

Hope you gettin all this on BCC RG :wink:
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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby Tex » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:54 pm

A very forlorn hope but I wonder if this was James Rose c1830 on the 1851 census.
HO107/1695 at "District Infantry Barracks " New Windsor Berkshire.

Jame Rose age 21- Private soldier Labourer Born Northfield


Agree with the family on the 1841 census but still no sign of a possible James on the 1841 census. I wondered if he was given two christian names, and used different names at different time. Could he be one on the sons on the 141 under a different names ? That is the problem with the 1841 census, because the ages could be up to 5 years out due to the "Rounding". :(
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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby gardener » Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:11 pm

Hi distantrel :-)
That Hannah Field argument looks good to me. Who was it wanted Hannah partridge?

I found a floating James Rose in 1841 but I can't see how he fits in

1841
Hales Owen
Bull Ring
Benjamin White,70,grocer,y
Sarah White,70,y
James Rose,11,y

1851
Halesowen
Bull Ring
Richard White,head,m,32,grocer,Halesowen
Charlotte ditto,32,ditto
Benjamin ditto,8,ditto
Edward ditto,4,ditto
Elizabeth ditto,2,ditto
Sarah ditto,mother,wid,76,grocers mother,ditto
William Rose,visitor,u,20,merchants clerk,ditto,
Sarah Hobson?,serv,u,17,house servant,ditto

With a possible marriage

Halesowen
1792 Aug 2oth
Benjamin White (otp bach) to Sarah Taylor (otp spin)
Witnesses Samuel Newey and Mary Buckley


Trying to find a White/Rose connection

Halesowen
25th Sep 1820
John Rose otp widr married Ann White otp spin
Witnesses John Saunders and Ann Ferraday

That could be Ann White bapt 31 mar 1793, Halesowen, parents Benjamin and Sarah

Not ringing any bells with me though.
"The present is the key to the past" - Charles Lyell
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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby gardener » Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:24 pm

1836 Halesowen
Dec 25th
James son of Joseph and Mary Rose, Borough, nailer, said to be born 13 April 1829
Joseph son of Joseph and Mary Rose, Borough, nailer


1834
Aug 10th
George son of Joseph and Mary Rose,Borough,nailer
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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby Tex » Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:49 pm

gardener wrote:1836 Halesowen
Dec 25th
James son of Joseph and Mary Rose, Borough, nailer, said to be born 13 April 1829
Joseph son of Joseph and Mary Rose, Borough, nailer


1834
Aug 10th
George son of Joseph and Mary Rose,Borough,nailer


The baptism 25th December 1836 born 13th April 1829 is the James that I have entered into my tree as the husband of Elizabeth Taylor. As I have said Elizabeth was the illegitimate daughter of Jane Pearson Taylor and William Rutter. Jane went on to marry Joel Weston (C1801) at Clent on 13th November 1842 but sadly she died the following year without issue :cry:
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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby peterd » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:25 am

11 kids for joesph and mary


ELIZABETH ROSE Christening: 27 MAR 1831 Halesowen, Worcester,

DAVID ROSE Christening: 25 DEC 1831 Halesowen, Worcester,

GEORGE ROSE Christening: 10 AUG 1834 Halesowen, Worcester,

JOSEPH ROSE Christening: 01 MAR 1836 Halesowen, Worcester,

JAMES ROSE Birth: 13 APR 1829, Christening: 25 DEC 1836 Halesowen, Worcester,

JOSEPH ROSE Christening: 25 DEC 1836 Halesowen, Worcester,

MOSES ROSE Christening: 20 MAY 1838 Halesowen, Worcester,

ANNE ROSE Christening: 21 FEB 1841 Halesowen, Worcester,

THOMAS ROSE Christening: 31 DEC 1843 Halesowen, Worcester,

AMY ROSE Christening: 02 JUL 1850 Halesowen, Worcester,

MARY ANN ROSE Christening: 29 NOV 1850 Halesowen, Worcester,


i think were dealing with two families here at least,

the ones not underline are the ones farside found in the 41 and 51 census,

why do i think so joseph and james christend together dec 1836,

there another joseph christend mar 1836 which i believe to be the one in the census,

as if the other joesph dec 1836 and james dec 1836 born 1829 was the one from the census why wasnt james chirstend with david in 1831 or george in 1834 what do you all think ?
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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby Rosegarden » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:29 am

You could be right peterd :oops: i must admit i have alway's felt a little uneasy about James and why he was not with the familyin the 1841 census.
If this correct where are the other Joseph and Mary :?
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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby Northern Lass » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:42 am

Whoever is filling in the Connections tree on this can they put the baptisms in as well please as think they are really important and any census info too.
The baptisms there is a section on the ancestor to fill in specifically- Go to Events- click select and choose from a long list incl bapt/burial /occupation etc etc.

The census info can go in the notes section.
All helps future researchers

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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby gardener » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:30 pm

ELIZABETH ROSE Christening: 27 MAR 1831 Halesowen, Worcester, Moor St, labourer

DAVID ROSE Christening: 25 DEC 1831 Halesowen, Worcester, The Borough, nailer

GEORGE ROSE Christening: 10 AUG 1834 Halesowen, Worcester, Borough, nailer

JOSEPH ROSE Christening: 01 MAR 1836 Halesowen, Worcester,Borough, nailer

JAMES ROSE Birth: 13 APR 1829, Christening: 25 DEC 1836 Halesowen, Worcester, Borough, nailer(interesting thing, there is another kid bpt then Ann dau of Joseph and Harriet Davis, said to be born 9 Apr 1829. I think they did a round up that Christmas and caught a few unbaptised kids.

JOSEPH ROSE Christening: 25 DEC 1836 Halesowen, Worcester, Borough, nailer

MOSES ROSE Christening: 20 MAY 1838 Halesowen, Worcester,

ANNE ROSE Christening: 21 FEB 1841 Halesowen, Worcester,

THOMAS ROSE Christening: 31 DEC 1843 Halesowen, Worcester,

AMY ROSE Christening: 02 JUL 1850 Halesowen, Worcester,

MARY ANN ROSE Christening: 29 NOV 1850 Halesowen, Worcester,


I don't have the later ones I'm afraid, but James (1829) through to Joseph 1836 look to have the same parents.

Joseph Rose 35 - Nailor
Mary Rose 35
Charles Rose 15
William Rose 13
David Rose 10
George Rose 8
Joseph Rose 6
Moses Rose 3
Ann Rose 4 Mo

Since Elizabeth (1831) is not in the 1841 census and has her parents living in a different place, father's occupation different, I would query if she belongs to this couple. Then I think the rest fit OK until Thomas (1843). Not sure about the ones after that.
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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby gardener » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:37 pm

gardener wrote:I found a floating James Rose in 1841 but I can't see how he fits in

1841
Hales Owen
Bull Ring
Benjamin White,70,grocer,y
Sarah White,70,y
James Rose,11,y

1851
Halesowen
Bull Ring
Richard White,head,m,32,grocer,Halesowen
Charlotte ditto,32,ditto
Benjamin ditto,8,ditto
Edward ditto,4,ditto
Elizabeth ditto,2,ditto
Sarah ditto,mother,wid,76,grocers mother,ditto
William Rose,visitor,u,20,merchants clerk,ditto,
Sarah Hobson?,serv,u,17,house servant,ditto

With a possible marriage

Halesowen
1792 Aug 2oth
Benjamin White (otp bach) to Sarah Taylor (otp spin)
Witnesses Samuel Newey and Mary Buckley


I think this is probably James William Rose bpt 25th July 1830, Halesowen, parents Henry William Rose and Phebe, Borough, spade maker
(parents married: Henry William Rose and Phoebe White 5 Apr 1824 St Phil Birmingham
Phoebe White bpt 23 Mar 1804 Halesowen, parents Benjamin and Sarah)

So this is not the missing James Rose.

Edited: I added James William Rose to his parents on BCC here
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =287752179
Last edited by gardener on Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby peterd » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:12 pm

gardener is still does reason if these are of the same family where james in the census and why wasnt he christend with any of the above and another joesph christened the same day.?



DAVID ROSE Christening: 25 DEC 1831 Halesowen, Worcester, The Borough, nailer

GEORGE ROSE Christening: 10 AUG 1834 Halesowen, Worcester, Borough, nailer

JOSEPH ROSE Christening: 01 MAR 1836 Halesowen, Worcester,Borough, nailer

JAMES ROSE Birth: 13 APR 1829, Christening: 25 DEC 1836 Halesowen, Worcester, Borough, nailer(interesting thing, there is another kid bpt then Ann dau of Joseph and Harriet Davis, said to be born 9 Apr 1829. I think they did a round up that Christmas and caught a few unbaptised kids.
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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby gardener » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:17 pm

I don't see why it can't all be one family.

Joseph bapt Mar 1836. He dies and new baby gets same name and is baptised Dec 1836. At the same time James is baptised with stated date of birth as Apr 1829.
I don't have a problem with that.
I can't see a burial for a baby James but burials were not always recorded.

If it is two families then you need another Joseph Rose living at Borough and working as a nailer and married to a Mary. I just think the baptism records point to it being one family.

As for where James is in 1841. I don't know :-)

Are there any details from James's marriage to Elizabeth Taylor?
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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby peterd » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:29 pm

here the only detials i can find on there marriage

JAMES ROSE
ELIZABETH TAYLOR
Marriage: 23 MAR 1856 Halesowen, Worcester, England

Husband Age at Marriage: 26
Wife Age at Marriage: 20


which will make him born 1829/30

i can see your point on the early joseph dying but i cant still figure out why would james be christend in 1836 when he could of be chistend with one of his poss younger brothers in 31,34, or 36 ?
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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby gardener » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:30 am

peterd wrote:i can see your point on the early joseph dying but i cant still figure out why would james be christend in 1836 when he could of be chistend with one of his poss younger brothers in 31,34, or 36 ?


I suppose they just forgot him for a bit. This other couple did the same:

Thomas Davis bapt 8 May 1834
Ann Davis bapt 25 Dec 1836 birth given as 9 Apr 1829
Jane Davis bapt 25 Dec 1836

All entries given as parents Joseph and Harriet, living the Borough, occupation of father sawyer
So Ann was born 1829, Thomas born and baptised 1834 but Ann not baptised until her sister is in 1836.

I've seen it sometimes where the parents went off to a chapel for a few years and then when they went back to the parish church they had the older kids baptised but I don't think that applies here. I suppose some circumstances came up and and James was not baptised as a baby.

I just wondered about that marriage.
We have this James who was baptised late and then we can't find him with his family in the census but he is there married in 1861.

I just wondered how certain it was that James who married Elizabeth was actually the son of Joseph and Mary?
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Re: Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

Postby Rosegarden » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:27 pm

I had a lot of my info from Steve Cullen a ROSE researcher and he seems to think he his Joseph and Mary's son.
James also had a first wife Elizabeth? b1833 death cert 20 sep 1855 buriel 23 sep 1855.
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