ARC TBC? Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker--

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ARC TBC? Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker--

Postby Jayneh » Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:43 am

Hi, I'm new on here. Thank you to Jo who gave me the link to this discussion site. I’m related to the BARKER and BAKER families who lived in the Kingswinford area and nearby, and through them to the HOMER and HINGLEY/ INGLEYs. Piecing the information together was quite confusing, because along with the similarity of the 2 surnames names, two generations of Barkers married women from the Baker family, though as yet I haven’t been able to find out whether/ how these great and gr gr grand mothers were related. Added to that, there appeared to be recording and transcript errors and use of different first names on documents, and of course a lot of repeated names in the family such as James, Amos, William, Thomas and Margaret, just to add to the confusion.

I believe at least three of my direct ancestors are on the Black Country Connections Website: my great grandmother appears as Margaret BAKER in the BCC tree as born abt 1870 (shown on BCC as daughter of Thomas BAKER and Margaret HOMER, all born in the Kingswinford area), but I've found she often appears on certificates as Florence Margaret. She is the mother of my grandfather James Alfred BARKER. (His Uncle Amos BARKER also appears on the BCC website, but I can write about that link later.)

I discovered my grandfather James Alfred BARKER was born on Cressett Lane, Brockmoor, Kingswinford on 30th August 1895. As stated on his birth certificate his father was James Barker, Iron Roller and his mother was Florence Margaret BARKER formerly BAKER. After much searching and tying together of information on documents, I am pretty well convinced that Florence Margaret BAKER was birth registered as Margaret BAKER, born 27th Aug 1871 at Commonside, Kingswinford, father Thomas BAKER, coal miner and mother Margaret BAKER formerly HOMER. (Whatsmore, I have a fairly close Ancestry DNA match (191cm) to someone (a 2nd cousin once removed) descended from Thomas BAKER and Margaret HOMER.) Later in life my gr grandmother moved to Barnsley (which is where my parents came from) and in the 1939 register she is recorded as Florence M BARKER bn 27 Aug 1971 (same birth date as stated on Margaret BAKER’s birth certificate) living in the same house as James BARKER born 18th Feb 1971, and Amos BARKER bn 17 June 1897 and James BARKER bn 4th Sep 1922 who I have established were her husband, son and grandson. Another piece of evidence was a note I recently found written by my parent (long ago deceased) which says the family lived on Finger Street Dawley (which is near Iron Bridge and Much Wenlock); although she was listed as Margaret Elizabeth Baker on that note, I found a birth certificate for her daughter (Florence May BARKER) which records the daughter born at Finger Road Dawley in 1905 and her mother as Florence Margaret Barker formerly BAKER and father James BARKER, Master Butcher.

Hope you are convinced by the information, and there is more about her listed below. If the administrators of the BCC website are also convinced, I was hoping it might be possible for Margaret Baker’s dob to be changed on the BCC tree to 27th Aug 1871 as per the birth certificate I have (which I can send a copy of), and a note could be added to say later she called herself Florence Margaret Barker on her marriage and her children’s birth certificates, but is recorded as Margaret on each census up to and including the 1911, but is listed as Florence M Barker on the 1939 Register. The administrators are also welcome to add the information I have listed below if they are happy with it.

I have a couple of questions arising from the info below if anyone can help please: Her husband James Barker (my great grandfather) is recorded as a Miller on their 1893 marriage certificate, and then an Iron Roller on his son’s 1895 birth certificate and Iron worker on the 1901 Census. By ‘miller’ I assume they mean someone working in the iron mills, rather than flour mills. Do you think that’s right? The note I recently found written by my parent implies that James worked at Round Oak, Dudley. Is it possible to find a list of employees who worked at the Round Oak Iron and Steel works around 1900? By 1905 he states he is a master butcher living in Dawley – perhaps he is exaggerating his experience, as it may take more than a few years to be classed as a master butcher, I don’t know.
thank you for any help and interest in this
best wishes
Jayne

List of information for Margaret BAKER (that could be added to the BCC website):
Birth certificate
Margaret BAKER, born 27th Aug 1871 at Commonside, Kingswinford to Thomas BAKER, coal miner and Margaret BAKER formerly HOMER (Superintendent Registrar’s District: Stourbridge)

She is with her mother and 3 of her brothers on the 1881 Census (who are on the BCC tree):
1881 Census: House Opposite Anchor Inn, Brockmore, Kingswinford, Staffs
Thomas Baker, Head, 20, Horse Driver
Margaret Baker, Mother, 41, Widow
Sargent Baker, Brother, 24, Iron Worker
Isaiah Baker, Brother, 13, Horse Driver
Margaret Baker, Sister, 9, Scholar
All Born in Brochmoor, Kingswinford

1891 Census: 3 John Street, Brierley Hill, Kingswinford, Staffs
Margaret Baker, Head, 60, Widow
Thomas Baker, Son, 30, Forge Labourer
Margaret Baker, Daur, 19, Servant Domestic
All Born in Commonside, Brierley Hill, Dudley

By the time she was married to James BARKER she was calling herself Florence Margaret BAKER, details on their marriage certificate are:
Married on 6 August 1893 at Christ Church in the Parish of Quarry Bank in the county of Stafford, after banns
James Barker, 22, Bachelor, Miller, res. at Brockmore, father William Barker, Postman
Florence Margaret Baker, 21, Spinster, Glass Painter, res. at Brockmore, father Thomas Baker deceased, miner.
Witnesses: Charles Edward Woodhouse and Alice Windsor
Both sighed their name

On her son James’ birth certificate in 1895 she is down as Florence too:
James Barker bn Cressett Lane, Brockmoor R.D., Kingswinford on 30th August 1895, father was James Barker, Iron Roller, mother Florence Margaret Barker formerly Baker. (Superintendent Registrar’s District: Stourbridge)

On the 1901 Census she is listed as Margaret
1901 Census: Union Passage, Pensnett, Kingswinford, Staffs
James Barker, Head, M, 30 Iron worker, born Staff, Brierley Hill
Margaret Barker, Wife, M, 29, bn Staff, Pensnett
James Barker, Son, 6, bn Staff Brierley Hill
Amos Barker, Son, 4, bn Staff Brierley Hill
William W Barker, Son, 1 ¼, bn bn Staff, Pensnett

On her daughter’s birth certificate she is also listed as Florence Margaret:
Florence May Barker, born 3rd March 1905, Finger Road Dawley, mother Florence Margaret Barker formerly Baker and father James Barker, Master Butcher.

On the 1911 Census she is living in Barnsley and is recorded as Margaret
James Barker, Head, Married, Coke Drawer Colliery, bn Staffordshire
Margaret Barker, Wife, Married 17 years, 6 children born & still living, bn Kingswinford, Staffordshire
James Barker, Son, 15, School, bn Kingswinford, Staffordshire
Amos Barker, Son, 13, School, bn Kingswinford, Staffordshire
Wilfred Barker, Son, 11, School, bn Kingswinford, Staffordshire
Lizie Barker, Daughter, 8, School, bn Kingswinford, Staffordshire
Florence Barker, Daughter, 6, School, bn Much Wenlock, Shropshire
Nelley Barker, Daughter, 4, School, bn Much Wenlock, Shropshire
Note: James' signature looks the same as the one on their marriage certificate
Much Wenlock is near Dawley where they lived at the time their daughter Florence was born and registered

On the 1939 Register she is recorded as Florence M Barker
19 Carlton Terrace, Carlton, Barnsley, Yorkshire
James Barker born 18th Feb 1871, Married, Coke worker (Retired)
Florence M Barker bn 27 Aug 1871, Married
Amos BARKER bn 17 June 1897, single
James BARKER bn 4th Sep 1922, Single
Note:
1) Florence M Barker’s birth date is the same as that stated on Margaret Baker’s birth certificate born at Commonside, Kingswinford:
2) Amos Barker is her son
3) James Barker born 1922 is her grandson who died later in 1939 and was the son of James Alfred Barker and his first wife Florrie Bamford.

Death Certificate
Died 28th July 1953, 19 Carlton Terrace, Carlton, Barnsley, Florence Margaret Barker, female aged 81 years, Widow of James Barker, a coke ovens Labourer, Informant A. J. Barker, Son present at death 19 Carlton Terrace.
Last edited by Jayneh on Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker my gr grmoth

Postby BC Wench » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:43 am

Dudley Archives and Local History Service hold records for Round Oak Steel Works, but I don't know if they hold any employment records. Take a look at this web site, you might be lucky

http://blackcountryhistory.org/

http://blackcountryhistory.org/collecti ... cba=Search
Researching: PARGETER, BELCHER, BRADLEY, DANDO, ROWLEY, ROWSELL
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Re: Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker my gr grmoth

Postby Jayneh » Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:29 am

Hi, thanks for the web links
Jayne
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Re: Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker my gr grmoth

Postby grangers14 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:52 pm

Hello Janeh,
I am glad you joined us. :)
I have been busy doing other work for BCC, we can look and I will add as we can, verify your findings.
It would be best to keep each family to a different topic as it is easier to go through. :)
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Re: Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker my gr grmoth

Postby grangers14 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:12 pm

I also think this is a good web site for Old Occupations
http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/index.html
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Re: Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker my gr grmoth

Postby Jayneh » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:46 pm

Hi Granges14,
Thanks for the messages, you seem busy, no worries about the delay, I’ve been busy doing other things too.
Here is my link to Florence Margaret Barker (nee Margaret Baker in the BCC tree I believe) in my Ancestry tree with documents relating to her:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/ ... 6893/facts
Let me know if you need any of the information posting or emailing directly. Thank you!
I hope to post information about other generations of the Barker and Baker family from the Black Country in separate threads over the next month or so.
Thanks again
Jayne
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Re: Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker my gr grmoth

Postby grangers14 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:18 pm

So if we go from James Alfred Barker born 1895...

Christening. Freereg.
19th September 1895. St John, Brockmoor.
James Alfred, born 30th August 1895. Parents James and Margaret Barker, Cressett Lane, Brockmore. Iron worker

1901. 8 Union Passage, Pensnett, Kingswinford .
James Barker, head, 30, Iron Worker,
Margaret, wife, 29, Pensnett
James A, son, 6,
Amos, son, 4,
William M, son, 1 I/4, Pensnett
All others born Brierley Hill

1911. 19 Carlton Long Row, Near Barnsley, Yorkshire
James Barker, head, 41, Coke Drawer Colliery
Margaret, wife, 41, Married 17 years, 6 children, all living.
James, son, 15,
Amos, son, 13,
Wilfred, son, 11,
Lizzie, daur, 2,
Florence, daur, 6, Much Wenlock, Shropshire
Nelly, daur, 4, Much Wenlock, Shropshire
Others born Kingswinford

Marriage
West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1893
BARKER James BAKER Florence M Quarry Bank, Christ Church Dudley Register Office 016/003/27
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Re: Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker my gr grmoth

Postby grangers14 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:20 pm

:roll:
I have repeated what you posted! :crazy:
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Re: Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker my gr grmoth

Postby grangers14 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:11 pm

Would you like your forum name added to the BCC tree? :)
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Re: Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker my gr grmoth

Postby Jayneh » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:50 pm

that would be great, thanks :P
Jayne
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Re: Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker-- Jo sorting

Postby grangers14 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:35 pm

??
1841. Meeting Lane, Kingswinford.
James Barker, 30, Lab, Not born in County
Elizabeth, 30, Not born in County
James, 2,
William, 1,
/Jessy Barker, 25, Lab, Not born in County
William North, 40, Lab
All others born in County

??
1851. Wormwood Bank, Brettle Lane, Kingswinford
James Barker, head, 43, Waggoner
Elizabeth, wife, 41,
William, som, 19,
Numerous Lodgers…surnames
Ratcliffe, Meigh, Barker, Clark, Adams, Farrows, Jubb,

1861. High Street, Kingswinford.
Thomas Barker, head, 48, Blacksmith, ? Shropshire
Annie, wife, 28, Tipton
Francis, son, 6,
Timothy, son, 5,
Jesse, son, 2,
William, Nephew, 21, Blacksmith, Kingswinford
Others born Brierley Hill

So far added...
https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... =615188664
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Re: Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker-- Jo sorting

Postby Jayneh » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:57 pm

Wonderful! Great thanks for putting so many of my ancestors on the BCC website already.

Great that you have also found William BARKER born 1840 in the census, the father of James BARKER bn 1871. I agree, these are the entries that I have for him, and I was going to transcribe these for you.
Unfortunately I can't find a birth entry on GRO for William BARKER bn 1840, nor for his older brother James listed as 1 year old on the 1841 census. Perhaps the parents didn't register them.
However, GRO had an entry for a BARKER boy born 16 Sep 1838 with no name (Volume 18 Page 431, Stourbridge), I ordered the birth certificate and he was born to a James Barker and Elizabeth Barker on Brettell Lane - the names on the 1841 census. I think James and Elizabeth might be cousins from Shropshire, and I think the 1851 census has her born at Stoke St Milbrough.

In the 1861 census I think William's Uncle Thomas BARKERs place of birth is Stoke Prior Shropshire, though I have him baptized at Ditton Priors and later living at Neen Sollars Shropshire - I believe this is where Williams father James came from, but I can detail that later.

I see you have created a new Thomas BAKER for the father of (Florence) Margaret BAKER who married James BARKER bn 1871, however I tracked her down to be part of this family in the link below where she is listed as Margaret Baker daughter of Thomas Baker and Margaret Homer.

https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... ver=475975
The main reason I think this is on the 1939 register she is recorded as Florence M BARKER with the same birth date 27 Aug 1871, the same day as stated on Margaret BAKER’s birth certificate I emailed today (daughter of Thomas Baker and Margaret Homer) and on the 1939 census she was living in the same house as James BARKER born 18th Feb 1871.
Whatsmore, I have a fairly close Ancestry DNA match (191cm) to someone (a 2nd cousin once removed) descended from Thomas BAKER and Margaret HOMER through Isabella Baker who is on that page of BCC.

hope that helps
Jayne
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Re: Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker-- Jo sorting

Postby Jayneh » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:22 pm

.. I also have 2 other DNA matches (3rd cousins with 30cm and 57 cm in common with me) who from their trees are descended from Thomas BAKER and Margaret HOMER through their daughter Isabella BAKER
Jayne
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Re: Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker-- Jo sorting

Postby peterd » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:09 pm

Jayneh wrote:.. I also have 2 other DNA matches (3rd cousins with 30cm and 57 cm in common with me) who from their trees are descended from Thomas BAKER and Margaret HOMER through their daughter Isabella BAKER
Jayne


are you on gedmatch ?
A person should have an opinion on everything, It becomes tact whether you reveal that opinion or not.

http://www.deneview.co.uk/
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Re: Florence Margaret Barker nee Margaret Baker-- Jo sorting

Postby Jayneh » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:17 pm

No these matches are from Ancestry
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