Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby rockyfowler » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:01 pm

grangers14 wrote:I wonder looking outside the box might help, another area?
There was a birth recorded for a Mary, first quarter with mothers name Coltett, I presumed Collett but found no marriage :?


1860 St Edmund Dudley
330 18 Mar
Joseph THOMAS F B Labourer Dudley Father John Thomas Labourer
Mary Ann COLLEHER F S Dudley Father David Colleher Labourer
After Banns The X Of Both
Wit; William Hitchin X / Benjamin Dudley
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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby gardener » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:06 pm

Northern Lass wrote:Why is it not this marriage..do you have full info

West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1872
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
TINSLEY Elizabeth THOMAS Joseph West Bromwich, St Peter Sandwell Register Office 29/1/202


Birth for Elizabeth but this one is not born 1882

THOMAS, ELIZABETH TINSLEY
GRO Reference: 1874 S Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 820


You can find this couple, with their kids, elsewhere in the census, so it is not them
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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby rockyfowler » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:06 pm

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
THOMAS, JOSEPH CALLIER
GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 679
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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby rockyfowler » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:15 pm

1871
Bromford Road Court 1
Joseph Thomas Head - Male 34 1837 - Worcestershire, England Brick Burner
Mary A Thomas Wife - Female 33 1838 - Shropshire, England
William H Thomas Son - Male 10 1861 - Worcestershire, England
Joseph Thomas Son - Male 7 1864 - Worcestershire, England
Mary A Thomas Daughter - Female 4 1867 - Worcestershire, England
Mary A Thomas Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Middlesex, England
Last edited by rockyfowler on Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby Delapre-Ron » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:47 pm

rockyfowler wrote:1881
Joseph Thomas Head - Male 34 1837 - Worcestershire, England Brick Burner
Mary A Thomas Wife - Female 33 1838 - Shropshire, England
William H Thomas Son - Male 10 1861 - Worcestershire, England
Joseph Thomas Son - Male 7 1864 - Worcestershire, England
Mary A Thomas Daughter - Female 4 1867 - Worcestershire, England
Mary A Thomas Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Middlesex, England

Sorry RF but the dates do not seem to fit, my Joseph was supposedly married with daughter Hannah by 1873. I know I can't prove that Hannah was his, but all the other date pointers indicate a much earlier birth date.
Including “Death Certificate” dated Fourth July 1909 – 39 Orchard Street // Joseph Thomas // Male // 57 years // Brick Burner // Carcinoma of Stomach // H. Knight Daughter present at death – 39 Orchard Street // Fifth July 1909
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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby rockyfowler » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:05 pm

We are still digging as you have on the same old ground :roll: so it takes time :( some brickwalls last years to crack .
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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby rockyfowler » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:27 pm

In 1901 Census
Your GrandMother Mary Hannah Thomas puts herself as born 1872?
Was she this Mary Ann? No father named ?

THOMAS, MARY ANN -
GRO Reference: 1872 D Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 796
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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby Northern Lass » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:59 pm

There is this birth

Gro

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
THOMAS, MARY OWEN
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 790


West Midlands Birth indexes for the years: 1885
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference
THOMAS Mary Oldbury Sandwell Register Office OLD/71/486


Free bmd
Births Jun 1885 6b 790
Thomas Mary
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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby Delapre-Ron » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:16 pm

rockyfowler wrote:1872 St Peter West Bromwich
202 3 Mar
Joseph THOMAS 20 B Moulder West Bromwich Father William Thomas Miner
Elizabeth TINSLEY 20 S West Bromwich Father (Blank)
After Banns Joseph Signed The X Of Elizabeth
Wit; Moses Wright / Mary Ann Thomas

I have thoroughly checked out this Joseph Thomas and Elizabeth Tinsley and they are not the ones. This joseph was a Holloware Moulder and he was still alive in 1911.
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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby Delapre-Ron » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:32 pm

rockyfowler wrote:In 1901 Census
Your GrandMother Mary Hannah Thomas puts herself as born 1872?
Was she this Mary Ann? No father named ?

THOMAS, MARY ANN -
GRO Reference: 1872 D Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 796

My Grandmother was Mary Thomas (I have no hint of middle name) and was possibly born about 1885.
She is not:
Mary Ann Thomas 1886 GRO 6d 343
Mary Thomas 1885 GRO 6b 780
Mary Elizabeth Thomas 1888 GRO 6b 491
Mary Thomas 1884 GRO 6b 803
I am currently waiting for Mary Ann Thomas 1886 6b 596
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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby Northern Lass » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:39 pm

So there is a Mary Thomas b 1885 mother Owen

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
THOMAS, MARY OWEN
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 790

Then this

GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 751
GRIFFITHS, HANNAH mothers maiden name OWEN
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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby gardener » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:43 pm

1891. Canal Side, Bromford Lane, West Bromwich.
Joseph Thomas, head, 41, Brickworks labourer,
Elizabeth, wife, 41
John, son, 5, West Bromwich,
Hannah, daur, 15,
Lizzie, daur, 10,
Maria, daur, 3, West Bromwich,
All others born Oldbury

1901. 39, Orchard Street, Oldbury.
Joseph Thomas, head, 55, Labourer Brick yard,
Elizabeth, wife, 55,
Hannah, daur, 29,
William, son, 14,
Mary, daur, 13,
Thomas, son, 1, (should be grand son)
All born Oldbury


Where was William in 1891? (And later)
He is not this one
Edward Morris 52
Elisabeth Morris 51
Elisa Morris 21
Susannah Morris 19
Hannah Morris 10
William Thomas 3
because he seems to be with his mum Emily (Morris) and father William Thomas in 1901.

He could be "John" from the 1901 family, but if so we are short a child for the 5 surviving children.

Do you have this marriage?

1907 (16th June according to his military papers)

THOMAS William PHIPPS Maria Oldbury, Christ Church Sandwell Register Office 12/6/94

Who were the witnesses for that?
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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby Delapre-Ron » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:26 pm

Sorry, but until recently I hadn’t been too sure about William and if the snippets that I had pieced together were for the correct person and if they fitted together. So no marriage certificate. I had explored the Morris grandparent’s connection bus didn’t get very far with it, I thought the grandparents were most likely too young if Elizabeth was born about 1850, they would only have been 10 or 11 and nothing else fitted together.
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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby gardener » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:46 pm

No worries. It is on Freereg anyway

Place Oldbury
Church name Christ Church
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 94
Marriage date 16 Jun 1907
Groom forename William
Groom surname THOMAS
Groom age 21
Groom condition bachelor
Groom occupation Labourer
Groom abode 39 Orchard St.
Bride forename Maria
Bride surname PHIPPS
Bride age 21
Bride condition spinster
Bride abode 19 Stone St.
Groom father forename Joseph
Groom father surname THOMAS
Groom father occupation Brick burner
Bride father forename Thomas
Bride father surname PHIPPS
Bride father occupation Ironworker
Witness1 William JELF
Witness2 Louisa JOMES
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Re: Brick-Wall hiding Thomas family in Oldbury

Postby grangers14 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:51 pm

That's right Gardener! Address too!
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