Annie Troth - b. Circa 1897

[Minotaur]

Hello,

My head is sore from bashing into this brick wall multiple times so I am seeking assistance!

== Context ==
My grandfather was Maurice Troth (b. Dec 1917, Bromsgrove).
Family knowledge is that Maurice had a falling out with one or both parents. Somehow ended up in Wales and, as a teenager, walked from Wales back to Bromsgrove as a result of the falling out.
His birth certificate shows his mother as being Annie Troth (Stourbridge Road, Bromsgrove), but there are no details for his father.
We know he had a brother, Leslie, who he fell out with or just lost contact with.
A couple of Maurice's children remember him having a sister called Beryl (again limited contact)
A marriage certificate shows Annie Hughes and Harold Troth were married (Bromsgrove) on 6th October 1912.
A birth certificate shows Leslie H Troth was born in 1915 (Bromsgrove)
The 1921 Census shows Annie, Leslie and Maurice Troth living on Stourbridge Road, Bromsgrove with a Susannah Troth (age 67) - (Wild Guess number 1: Susannah is Annie's mother-in-law)
The 1939 Register shows Leslie Troth (b.1915) living (Stourbridge Road, Bromsgrove) with a Susannah Troth (b.1965), Beryl Waldron (b. 1928), Annie Waldron (b. 1897) and Harry Waldron (b. 1887)
Wild Guess number 2: Annie Hughes/Troth started living with Harry Waldron at some point after 1921
On FindMyPast I can find a record of Annie Trach (transcription error of handwritten addition to the typed index that I think should actually be 'Troth') marrying a Henry Waldron in 1926 in Bedwellty, Wales. (ties in nicely with 1939 register)
On FindMyPast I can find a record of Annie Troth marrying a Harry Jones in 1926 in Bedwellty, Wales.
On FindMyPast I can find a birth record for Beryl Waldron b. 1928 in Bedwellty (mother's maiden name: Troth)
On FindMyPast I can find a birth record for Beryl Jones b. 1928 in Bedwellty (mother's maiden name: Troth)

== Questions ==
Why would Maurice's father not be on birth certificate despite his mother using her married name of Troth. Is Maurice the result of an extra-marital affair, is his father away (at war?), or have parents just separated between Maurice's conception and birth registration?
If Annie Hughes married Harold Troth, then after his death is it likely she would use 'Troth' as a maiden name if remarrying Henry Waldron or Harry Jones or for Beryl's birth?
I cannot find both entries for the later (assumed) marriage of Annie and Henry/Harry Waldron/Jones. By 'both' entries I mean the first entry for Annie Troth linking to her new husband, and the second entry for her new husband linking to Annie). It looks like one record links Annie to Henry Waldron and the other entry links Annie to Harry Jones). Am I making wildly incorrect assumptions here or can anyone help me make sense of what I am seeing?

[Jimmy]

TROTH, HAROLD LESLIE BLANK.
GRO Reference: 1916 J Quarter in BROMSGROVE Volume 06C Page 342.

TROTH, MAURICE BLANK.
GRO Reference: 1918 M Quarter in BROMSGROVE Volume 06C Page 296.

[Jimmy]

Have you got the full details of this marriage,

A marriage certificate shows Annie Hughes and Harold Troth were married (Bromsgrove) on 6th October 1912.

[Jimmy]

There is also this,

TROTH, LESLIE HAROLD mothers maiden name HUGHES.
GRO Reference: 1915 S Quarter in BROMSGROVE Volume 06C Page 361.

[Jimmy]

Marriages Mar 1926.
Caswell William J Ratclff. Bedwellty. 11a126.
Jones Harry Troth. Bedwellty. 11a126.
Ratliff Annie M Caswell. Bedwellty. 11a126.
Troth Annie Jones. Bedwellty. 11a126.

Births Jun 1928.
Jones Beryl Troth. Bedwellty 11a. 127.

Births Jun 1928.
Waldron Beryl Froth. Bedwellty 11a. 12YA.

1939. Cott. View. Stourbridge Rd.
Harry Waldron 52. 16 Jun 1887. Motor Works Labourer.
Annie Waldron 42. 8 Jul 1897.
Beryl Waldron 21. 19 Feb 1918. 1928.
This record is officially closed.
Susannah Troth 74. 13 Dec 1865.
Leslie Troth 24. 13 Mar 1915.

Could be the one that is officially closed in Census,

Births Jun 1930.
Waldron Graham Troth. Bedwellty. 11a. 134a.

[Jimmy]

It looks to me Harry Jones, and Harry Waldron are the same person,
And Beryl Jones, and Beryl Waldron are the same person.

[Minotaur]

It looks to me Harry Jones, and Harry Waldron are the same person,
And Beryl Jones, and Beryl Waldron are the same person.

Hi Jimmy,

Thanks for your time and replies. It is good to see that my research hasn't strayed too far off course and largely correlates with what you have also found.

Your conclusion that Harry Jones and Harry Waldron are the same person, and that Beryl Jones and Beryl Jones are the same person is the same conclusion I was reaching, but how can this be? Is there some kind of protocol/convention that would lead to the husband (marriage certificate), father (Beryl's birth record surname) being registered with two different names? Is this something peculiar to Wales? Is it an error in the indexes? Or am I just off-track or missing something with the research?

I guess I really need to get hold of a copy of Henry/Harry and Annie's marriage certificate(s) and Beryl's birth certificate(s) to take this one any further!

Thanks again for your help!

Rob

[Jimmy]

ancestry.jpg (24.17 KiB) Viewed 8403 times

Births Jun 1928.
Waldron Beryl. Froth. Bedwellty. 11a. 12YA.

The 12YA shows it was added at a later date, you can see on the the image it was added at the bottom, which suggests to me it was a name change.

Could you post the details of the marriage to Harry Troth in 1912.

[Minotaur]

That's an interesting find. Thanks!

Not sure if that helps solve or deepens the mystery!

You mentioned that 12YA indicates the entry was added at a later date, why is that? Is 12YA a kind of universal code or does it just represent a different catalogue number? I guess the fact it is handwritten indicates it was added after the initial document was produced.

The marriage cert for Harold Troth & Annie Hughes has the following info...

Code: Select all

Marriage solemnized in 1912 at Methdodist Chapel Sidemoor in the District of Bromsgrove in the country of Worcester.

Cert No:  182
When Married:  Sixth October 1912

Name and Surname   Age          Condition       Rank or Profession                       Residence at time of Marriage             Father's Name and Surname              Rank or Profession of Father
Harold Troth      23 years      Bachelor        Blacksmith (journeyman)                  20 York Rd, Sidemoor                       David Troth                             Nail Maker
Annie Troth       19 years      Spinster        Hair Pin something unreadable            Marlbrook, Bromsgrove                      Joseph Hughes                           Nail Maker

Solemnized in the presence of J Porter and Nellie Wagstaff


Thanks,
Rob

[Jimmy]

The 12YA indicates a change to the original information.

[Jimmy]

I don't know where Joseph Hughes fits in, census shows Annie is the daughter of Albert and Susan.

1901. Stourbridge Road, Bromsgrove.
Emma Rutter 34. widow. age should be 24.
Florence Lizzie Rutter 8/12. Daughter.
Annie Troth 9. Sister.

1891. Barley Lands, Bromsgrove.
Albert Troth 37. nailer. died 1907 age 52.
Susan Troth 35.
Emma Troth 14. Daughter. Annie's sister.
Alfred Troth 12. Son.
Lillie Troth 10. Daughter.
Abel Troth 8. Son.
Harry Troth 5 Son.
William Troth 3. Son.
All born Bromsgrove.

From Ancestry,

Albert Troth. 19. father. William Troth.
Susannah Troth. 18. father. George Troth.
Marriage Date: 12 Dec 1870.
Marriage Place: Bromsgrove, Worcester.

But then there is this,
TROTH, ANNIE HAINES.
GRO Reference: 1891 S Quarter in BROMSGROVE Volume 06C Page 373.

[Jimmy]

1901. Wildmoor Lane, Bromsgrove.
Albert Thoth 48.
Susannah Thoth 45.
Abel Thoth 18. Son.
Harry Thoth 15. Son.
William Thoth 13. Son.
Annie Thoth 10. Daughter.

This one fits the marriage in 1912, but it dos'nt fit the one in the 1939 census because of age.

[Jimmy]

A possible for Joseph Hughes, nail maker.

1901. Birmingham Road, Bromsgrove.
Joseph Hughes 42. nail maker.
Sarah Hughes 42.
Martha Hughes 17 Daughter.
Sarah Jane Hughes 11. Daughter
Annie Elizabeth Hughes 9. Daughter
Rosie Hughes 5. Daughter.

[Jimmy]

The only Annie Troth born about 1897 is this one,

TROTH, ANNIE ETHEL DIPPLE.
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in BROMSGROVE Volume 06C Page 386.

Marriages Jun 1892.
DIPPLE Elizabeth. Bromsgrove. 6c. 640.
Green Mary Frances. Bromsgrove. 6c. 640.
THELWALL Arthur William. Bromsgrove. 6c. 640.
Troth George. Bromsgrove. 6c. 640.


1901. Bromsgrove.
George Sroth 34. Builder.
Elizabeth Sroth 29.
Elsie Sroth 7. Daughter.
Annie Sroth 4. Daughter.
George Sroth 9/12. Son.
Fanny Dipple 27. Boarder.

[Minotaur]

Hey Jimmy,

Thanks very much for all your effort and information. There is plenty there for me to sift through and try to correlate with what I have. A very good find on 'Sroth' too!

Cheers,
Rob