Genealogy Forum UK

Hi everyone, I was wondering if anyone could help me, please.

I have been compiling my family tree on and off with my father for many years and recently went back to my maternal side of the family.
We had gathered a lot of information from family members that are no longer with us and never got my great grandfather's birth certificate because my nan knew everything about him, however, we decided it would be a good idea to have a copy in our files.

Sydney George Morse born abt 1885 Swansea, Glamorgan (My Grandfather), married a Mary Gwendoline Barlow. I was always told (and have their marriage certificate) that Sydney’s parents were William Morse (1837) and Annie Marie Wheeler (1848), however, after requesting the birth certificate of the only Sydney George Morse who was born in the correct area and birth year states his mother’s name was Ann Williams, but the father’s name and occupation were correct.
This is now making me doubt all previous research for Sydney’s ancestor.
I thought maybe Annie had been married before, but the marriage certificate says she is a spinster. I am really confused.
Can anyone suggest where I go from here? or has anyone else researched the same Morse family tree?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Have you also noticed that Sydneys brother William Robert also has the mothers maiden name of Williams.

It could just be that it was misheard when registered.

kdwoodie wrote:Have you also noticed that Sydneys brother William Robert also has the mothers maiden name of Williams.

It could just be that it was misheard when registered.

Can I ask where you have found that please?

The GRO website. You have to register but its free.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/cert ... /Login.asp

kdwoodie wrote:The GRO website. You have to register but its free.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/cert ... /Login.asp

Thank you
This has made my search even more weird.
I am so confused

Hi
Could you post this information?

I was always told (and have their marriage certificate) that Sydney’s parents were William Morse (1837) and Annie Marie Wheeler (1848)

I can see a William Williams Wheeler baptised in 1820 (parents seem to have married after his birth) and it is quite possible that he would be known by two surnames and so might his children. But as far as I can see

Annie Marie Wheeler (1848)

had different parents so I can't quite link it together. But if you have the 1871 marriage then the details from that might help

Marriage: 17 Dec 1871 St James, Swansea
William Morse, Full, Widower, Mariner, Clarence Street, James Morse, Mariner
Ann Maria Wheeler, Full, S, Clarence Street, William Wheeler, Coal Merchant
Wit: Robert Williams, Lavinia Martha Jenkins, Elizabeth Weaver
Bride signs X

I see that Ann's place of birth varies a bit, but in two she says Wiltshire
1881
Swansea
Anne Morse 30 Westbury, Wilts

There is this entry
1871
Swansea, Edward Street
Robert Williams 39 coal merchant Somerset, Wells
Selina Williams 39 Wilts, Westbury
Ann Williams 21 Ditto
Thomas Williams 16 Ditto
John Williams 13 Glamorgan, Swansea (rest of children too)
Elizabeth Williams 11
Selina Williams 8
Nanny Williams 6
Robert Williams 2

1861
Robert Williams 32 Somerset, Cheddar
Selina Williams 35 Wilts, Westbury
Anne Williams 10 Ditto
Thomas Williams 5 Wilts, Seen [?Seend]
John Williams 3 Glamorgan,
Elizabeth Williams 1 Glamorgan, Swansea

There are births for the younger kids

WILLIAMS, ELIZABETH HUMPHRIES
GRO Reference: 1860 J Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 546
WILLIAMS, SELINA HUMPHREYS
GRO Reference: 1863 J Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 574
WILLIAMS, FANNY HUMPHREY
GRO Reference: 1865 J Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 617
WILLIAMS, ROBERT CHARLES HUMPHREYS
GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 578

Fanny was baptised Fanny Matilda, at the same time as Robert Charles and John (born 4 Dec 1857)

Fanny Matilda Williams
Mother Selina
Father Robert Williams
Birth 22 Mar 1864
Baptism 16 Dec 1868 Saint Mary,Swansea,Glamorgan,Wales

but note that her birthdate does not quite match the only Fanny Williams that I could find.


And then there are theses two

WHEELER, ANN MARIA HUMPHRIES
GRO Reference: 1848 S Quarter in WESTBURY AND WHORWELLSDOWN Volume 08 Page 445

WHEELER, THOMAS HUMPHREYS
GRO Reference: 1855 J Quarter in MELKSHAM Volume 05A Page 107

and I'm not at all convinced that they fit.

But, I am wondering if the Williams family is the right one and perhaps Ann Maria put her step father's occupation but her birth father's name on the marriage certificate, and then her step father was one of the witnesses.

MORSE, FANNY MATILDA WHEELER
GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 744
MORSE, WILLIAM ROBERT WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 714
MORSE, JOHN HENRY WHEELER
GRO Reference: 1880 D Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 598
MORSE, SYDNEY GEORGE WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 794

Fanny Matilda named after her half-sister and William Robert after both fathers?

(might all be rubbish)

Oh, I found this and then lost it

Name: Ann Maria Wheeler
Baptism Date: 10 Sep 1848
Baptism Place: Dilton Marsh, Holy Trinity, Wiltshire, England
Father: Benjamin Wheeler
Mother: Serena Wheeler

Dilton Marsh is close to Westbury, so it fits for birth place and almost mother's name - but not father's

So confusing, think this is why I discounted the 1848 birth before

1851
Benjiman Wooler 27
Serena Wooler 24
William Wooler 4
Ann Wooler 2
Charles Wooler 4 Mo
Sarah Wooler 24

1861
Westbury
Martha Wheeler 70
William Wheeler 14 gson Westbury
Charles Wheeler 11 gson Westbury
Edward Wheeler 7 gson Seend


WHEELER, EDWARD GEORGE HUMPHRIS
GRO Reference: 1853 M Quarter in MELKSHAM Volume 05A Page 108

Thank you to everyone who has posted their theories on my dilemma. However, this mystery has now been solved.