UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

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UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby KatherineL » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:02 pm

Good evening, please help

Enrique Uhthoff is from an extremely wealthy family
Annie Louisa Brookes is a servant
Enrique and Annie have a child Claude Henry Uhthoff, stating on his birth certificate and baptism that they are married but they are not

Unable to find:

1911 England Census
Enrique Henry Uhthoff born 1875
Kathleen May Uhthoff (maiden name Collinson)
Ida May Adelaide Uhthoff born 1906 (named after her mother and grandmother Adelaida who died suddenly in 1888 aged 42)

1911 England Census
Arthur Henry Parnall (but could have died 1911 in Manhattan, New York)
Annie Louisa Parnall born 1880 (maiden name Brookes)
Claude Henry Parnall/Uhthoff born 1897

Or there is every possibility that they are living abroad or travelling to and from the UK

It seems with Claude, the Uhthoff family are happy for him to be in the 1905 US Census and 1910 US Census but not the 1901 UK Census and 1911 UK Census - do people know in advance when the census is going to take place to go abroad or just be 'out' to not complete their information

Claude's father Enrique was in the 1896 newspapers, so his family are well known, his father Ludolfe left the family a £1.7MILLION fortune and grandfather Henry left the family a £13MILLION fortune appear in the newspapers regularly too - having an illegitimate child with a 17 year old servant in 1897 would have been scandalous for such a wealthy family.

Claude, his father Enrique and grandfather Ludolfe are also not found on the 1901 census, perhaps Claude has been taken abroad as Ludolfe dies in Switzerland in 1903.

Could a wealthy family have such control over hiding an illegitimate child in Victorian times.

Thank you for your help.
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Re: UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby gardener » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:15 pm

It seems with Claude, the Uhthoff family are happy for him to be in the 1905 US Census and 1910 US Census but not the 1901 UK Census and 1911 UK Census - do people know in advance when the census is going to take place to go abroad or just be 'out' to not complete their information


I don't see any evidence that the Uhthoff family had anything to do with it. But maybe you have some information about that.

I can see that Annie married in 1901, and then there is a lot of to-and-fro by Annie and Claude. He is at school in the US in 1905, and with his mother and step-father in 1910. Annie and Claude travel back to the UK together in 1912, so unless they fitted in a return journey in between then they would have missed the 1911 census.

I can't see Annie or Claude in 1901 though. Do you know where Annie was born?


I looked at some of your other posts. I wonder if 133 Finborough Road was some sort of useful address for people who wanted to look respectable when baptising their children?
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Re: UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby KatherineL » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:05 pm

gardener wrote:
It seems with Claude, the Uhthoff family are happy for him to be in the 1905 US Census and 1910 US Census but not the 1901 UK Census and 1911 UK Census - do people know in advance when the census is going to take place to go abroad or just be 'out' to not complete their information


I don't see any evidence that the Uhthoff family had anything to do with it. But maybe you have some information about that.

I can see that Annie married in 1901, and then there is a lot of to-and-fro by Annie and Claude. He is at school in the US in 1905, and with his mother and step-father in 1910. Annie and Claude travel back to the UK together in 1912, so unless they fitted in a return journey in between then they would have missed the 1911 census.

I can't see Annie or Claude in 1901 though. Do you know where Annie was born?

I looked at some of your other posts. I wonder if 133 Finborough Road was some sort of useful address for people who wanted to look respectable when baptising their children?


Hi, thanks for your help.

I think Claude is in the US in 1911, I think his step-father Arthur has died in 1911 so that is why Annie and Claude come back in 1912 - but being hidden in 1901. His grandfather Ludolfe dies in Switzerland in 1903, perhaps Claude was taken abroad.

I believe Annie is living in residential chambers in the 1901 census in the Precinct Of The Savoy with other servants, born Bow, Middlesex, Her parents I believe are Edwin and Jane. Without a marriage certificate for Enrique and Annie would not be able to cross-reference her parents, if indeed she would put down true parentage, Enrique and Annie are 'married' on Claude's baptism and birth certificate. I only found Claude looking for other Jezard/Courtenay/Thrasher children living at 133 Finborough Road in the baptisms.

Yes I believe that too about 133 Finborough Road, frustratingly I read an article online years ago when starting to research the Thrasher/Jezard/Courtenay/Torplow/Triplow) branch of our family history in the Kensington area of London (who regularly change their names) that there was a scandal with the clergy and wealthy members of society involving baptisms and illegitimate births in the Kensington area - Horace and Violet our relatives were baptised in 1896 at the same church as Claude in 1897 - they were also illegitimate and had false parents on their birth certificates and baptisms and Horace rumoured to be the son of an aristocrat but that we'll never know now! Violet born in 1890 was hidden from the 1891 census - the Thrasher family change their names after Violet is born and the Thrasher family change their names again after Horace is born. Something was going on at 133 Finborough Road!
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Re: UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby grangers14 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:19 pm

I wonder if there was any Bastardy Bonds ? Especially if a father was named?
(sorry for using that word, it sounds so crude...)
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Re: UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby KatherineL » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:40 pm

grangers14 wrote:I wonder if there was any Bastardy Bonds ? Especially if a father was named?
(sorry for using that word, it sounds so crude...)


Different times...

On speaking to the vicar at the church were Horace, Violet and Claude were baptised, it was out of the parish to where they were living at 133 Finborough Road, usually an illegitimate child would be baptised in their parish so the mother and child could claim parish relief and from the father.
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Re: UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby gardener » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:03 pm

KatherineL wrote:
grangers14 wrote:I wonder if there was any Bastardy Bonds ? Especially if a father was named?
(sorry for using that word, it sounds so crude...)


Different times...

On speaking to the vicar at the church were Horace, Violet and Claude were baptised, it was out of the parish to where they were living at 133 Finborough Road, usually an illegitimate child would be baptised in their parish so the mother and child could claim parish relief and from the father.


I don't think this was the case so late in the 19th century. The 1834 Poor Law Amendment Act shifted responsibility from the parish to the poor law unions. And I think the onus was on the mother to apply for a bond at the petty/quarter sessions.

Being missing from a census means nothing. If indeed that is Annie in the 1901 census, then her son may have been lodged with another family and he could even be under their surname. People were not that fussy about filling in forms.

My grandfather is baptised as if his parents were married, which they weren't. The 1901 census has him down with the wrong age (years not months) but living with his parents. Meanwhile, the actually wife can't be found in that census or the next, but there is no death certificate either. And she was certainly not rich or trying to hide away, as far as I know.

As for 133 Finborough Road - I expect you saw the newspaper notices offering instant loans from that address around the same time?
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Re: UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby KatherineL » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:05 pm

Thank you, there are so many scenarios over family life and circumstances.

No I haven't seen the notices for instant cash - where did you see them please, newspapers, which one, date - I have a British Newspapers Archive subscription but didn't notice that and still can't find, thank you.
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Re: UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby KatherineL » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:06 pm

KatherineL wrote:Thank you, there are so many scenarios over family life and circumstances.

No I haven't seen the notices for instant cash - where did you see them please, newspapers, which one, date - I have a British Newspapers Archive subscription but didn't notice that and still can't find, thank you.


And would that be Priscilla or her tenants providing instant cash?
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Re: UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby gardener » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:05 pm

I don't think it is connected except by the address.
If you search BNA with "133 Finborough Road" in quotations then a few come up, saying same thing about loans, and some others about a furniture sale (I don't have a subscription).

£alrs:, &c. SALE OF HOUSEHOLD FURNITCBE, &c.. AT THE WILLOWS. GEO. RUTHERFORD THOMSON & SON are favoured with ..
... charged exceedingly Low. Apply (enclosing Stamped Envelope, stating Sum required, how Repayable, fcc.) to W. Warlters, 133 Finborough Road, South Kensington. London. Money lent upon note of hand ▲T FEW HOURS 1 NOTICE, FROM £10 TO £500 To Clergymen, Gentlemen ...

Published: Thursday 06 July 1893
Newspaper: Arbroath Herald and Advertiser for the Montrose Burghs
County: Angus, Scotland
Type: Advertisement | Words: 706 | Page: 1 | Tags: none


And if you put W. Warlters, 133 Finborough Road into Google and then select "books" from the dropdown menu, it will lead to a House of Commons Money Lending Report from 1897. Only a snippet view, but interesting.
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Re: UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby KatherineL » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:59 pm

gardener wrote:I don't think it is connected except by the address.
If you search BNA with "133 Finborough Road" in quotations then a few come up, saying same thing about loans, and some others about a furniture sale (I don't have a subscription).

£alrs:, &c. SALE OF HOUSEHOLD FURNITCBE, &c.. AT THE WILLOWS. GEO. RUTHERFORD THOMSON & SON are favoured with ..
... charged exceedingly Low. Apply (enclosing Stamped Envelope, stating Sum required, how Repayable, fcc.) to W. Warlters, 133 Finborough Road, South Kensington. London. Money lent upon note of hand ▲T FEW HOURS 1 NOTICE, FROM £10 TO £500 To Clergymen, Gentlemen ...

Published: Thursday 06 July 1893
Newspaper: Arbroath Herald and Advertiser for the Montrose Burghs
County: Angus, Scotland
Type: Advertisement | Words: 706 | Page: 1 | Tags: none


And if you put W. Warlters, 133 Finborough Road into Google and then select "books" from the dropdown menu, it will lead to a House of Commons Money Lending Report from 1897. Only a snippet view, but interesting.



I can't believe this, it must be a coincidence, looking through the British Newspapers Archives, newspaper Homeward Mail From India, China & The East Thursday 10 January 1884, Deaths CAMA-January 2 at Davos Platz, Switzerland, D D Cama Esq of Bombay and of 133 Finborough Road, aged 39. Claude Uhthoff's grandfather Ludolfe Uhthoff dies in Davos Platz, Switzerland in 1903.

Onwards now with your findings, thank you...
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Re: UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby KatherineL » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:04 pm

KatherineL wrote:
gardener wrote:I don't think it is connected except by the address.
If you search BNA with "133 Finborough Road" in quotations then a few come up, saying same thing about loans, and some others about a furniture sale (I don't have a subscription).

£alrs:, &c. SALE OF HOUSEHOLD FURNITCBE, &c.. AT THE WILLOWS. GEO. RUTHERFORD THOMSON & SON are favoured with ..
... charged exceedingly Low. Apply (enclosing Stamped Envelope, stating Sum required, how Repayable, fcc.) to W. Warlters, 133 Finborough Road, South Kensington. London. Money lent upon note of hand ▲T FEW HOURS 1 NOTICE, FROM £10 TO £500 To Clergymen, Gentlemen ...

Published: Thursday 06 July 1893
Newspaper: Arbroath Herald and Advertiser for the Montrose Burghs
County: Angus, Scotland
Type: Advertisement | Words: 706 | Page: 1 | Tags: none


And if you put W. Warlters, 133 Finborough Road into Google and then select "books" from the dropdown menu, it will lead to a House of Commons Money Lending Report from 1897. Only a snippet view, but interesting.



I can't believe this, it must be a coincidence, looking through the British Newspapers Archives, newspaper Homeward Mail From India, China & The East Thursday 10 January 1884, Deaths CAMA-January 2 at Davos Platz, Switzerland, D D Cama Esq of Bombay and of 133 Finborough Road, aged 39. Claude Uhthoff's grandfather Ludolfe Uhthoff dies in Davos Platz, Switzerland in 1903.

Onwards now with your findings, thank you...


Found it!

Arbroath Herald & Advertiser For The Montrose Burghs, Angus, Scotland
Thursday 20 April 1893
MONEY
A gentleman of independent means is prepared to make advances of £5 to £1,000 to respectable borrowers on the note of hand alone, without any other security whatsoever. Strictly private and confidential. Repayable by installments to suit borrower's convenience. Interest charged exceedingly low. Apply (enclosing stamped addressed envelope stating sum required, how repayable) to W Warlters, 133 Finborough Road, South Kensington, London
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Re: UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby gardener » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:41 am

I'll just toss this out since I found it and the names may mean something to you.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov. ... f4ab5ade03

(Includes copy draft postnuptial marriage settlement of Edmund Howard Reynolds of 133 Finborough Road, West Brompton, Mddx, and his wife Janet Rose, daughter of James and Angelica McAdam, 1873.)


His daughter was an actress https://footlightnotes.wordpress.com/ta ... -reynolds/ and he was a cornet player - quite a "star" it seems.
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Re: UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby KatherineL » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:36 pm

gardener wrote:I'll just toss this out since I found it and the names may mean something to you.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov. ... f4ab5ade03

(Includes copy draft postnuptial marriage settlement of Edmund Howard Reynolds of 133 Finborough Road, West Brompton, Mddx, and his wife Janet Rose, daughter of James and Angelica McAdam, 1873.)


His daughter was an actress https://footlightnotes.wordpress.com/ta ... -reynolds/ and he was a cornet player - quite a "star" it seems.


Thanks more interesting reading - but not any of 'our' names! Couldn't cope with anymore!

Finborough Road is full of stories in the British Newspaper Archives, lots of theatrical people live in that road, along with money lenders, murder, prostitutes.

The money lender living at 133 Finborough Road, was advertising in a newspaper in Scotland, I wonder why?

Priscilla is advertising 'Occupation: Apartments Letters Of', what does this mean please?
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Re: UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby gardener » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:18 pm

Priscilla is advertising 'Occupation: Apartments Letters Of', what does this mean please?


Could you post the context?
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Re: UHTHOFF - WEALTHY VICTORIAN FAMILY

Postby SRD » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:22 am

Presumably it means she let apartments out. Presumably the property was split up into apartments. Sometimes the owners of the properties lived elsewhere, sometimes they lived on the premises and sometimes rooms in the properties would be set aside for the owners personal use even if they weren't actually resident there. A look at the electoral rolls and census records for the property might give an idea of how many apartments there were.
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