John westwood which family should he be with.

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John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby Northern Lass » Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:55 pm

kdwoodie wrote:One thing i dont understand is the John that was originally on as Joseph and Nancy son is living next door to Joseph and Ann/Nancy in 1841, Isaac is living the other side


I am wondering if 2 families
I don't think we have it right on bcc

this is John here
https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... =640529180

and the Isaac and Joseph and Nancy are here
https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... =640529180

so do we have 2 Joseph and Nancy
and which one should the Johns be with the other John is here
https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... =392347540
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Re: John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby Northern Lass » Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:12 pm

This Jane with Joseph and Nancy is dau of John and mary vanes as g.dau
so surely John married to Mary vanes has father Joseph and Nancy as parents.

1841 Old Hill Rowley Regis
Joseph Westwood 70 Carter
Ann Westwood 70
Jane Westwood 9
All born in County
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Re: John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby Northern Lass » Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:59 am

If anyone has any idea what I should do with the info on Bcc...do I put the other John with family and a note
?
cos this is beyond me I can't get a grip on it at all
both Johns seem to belong to the family.
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Re: John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby kdwoodie » Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:46 am

I have no idea :?
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Re: John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby Northern Lass » Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:50 am

nor me will move to brickwalls someone might be able to sort it.
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Re: John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby nugentsmith » Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:36 pm

I have John Westwood and wife Rosannah BATTY on my tree and had assumed that John’s parents were Joseph and Nancy SIVITER. Which may or may not be correct!

However, to try to sort the connection, I looked up possible deaths and ordered two certificates which seem to fit in with possible ages and the censuses:
D/1842/Dudley Union/Rowley Regis/No. 71 - reg. 3rd March 1842
Death on 28th February 1842 at Old Hill of Joseph WESTWOOD, Male, 75 years, Nailer. Cause of death: Natural Decay. Informant: (The mark X of) Benjamin WESTWOOD, in attendance, Old Hill.
and
D/1853/Dudley/Rowley Regis/No. 389 - reg. 2nd March 1853
Death on 28th February 1853 at Old Hill Rowley Regis of Ann WESTWOOD, Female, 82 years, Widow of Joseph WESTWOOD Nailer. Cause of death: Natural Decay. Informant: Eliza CUTLER, in attendance, Perrys Lake Rowley Regis.

At least there is a connection with a Benjamin WESTWOOD, but not sure about Eliza CUTLER.
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Re: John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby Northern Lass » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:03 am

So that death is for this Joseph.
https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... =796935198

thanks for that will add :wink:
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Re: John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby nugentsmith » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:22 pm

1851 Census:
HO107/2028/189/2/Sch 5 - Perrys Lake, Rowley Regis
David CUTLER Head Mar 42 Agricultural Labourer
Rosehannah do Wife Mar 42
Maryann do Daughter U 21 Dress maker
Eliza do Dau U 19 Dress maker
Joseph do Son 10
David do Son 7
All born Rowley

Birth details for son David from GRO:
CUTTER, DAVID WESTWOOD GRO Reference: 1843 J Quarter in DUDLEY UNION Volume 18 Page 280

This suggests that Rosehannah is daughter of Joseph and Nancy, but alas doesn’t help with John!
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Re: John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby nugentsmith » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:01 pm

Mary VANES turns up on the 1851 Census:
HO107/2032/468/16/Sch 50 – Graystone St, Dudley
Mary WESTWOOD Head Widow 42
Josh Westwood Son U 20 Vice Maker
John Westwood Son U 16 Vice Maker
Ja.. Westwood Son U 10
Maryann Westwood Dau U 8
Thos Westwood Son 3
All born Dudley

To support the connection:
Birth - WESTWOOD, THOMAS VANES
GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in DUDLEY UNION Volume 18 Page 218

A search on GRO for deaths of Mary’s husband John shows only one likely entry in Dudley district between 1841 and 1851:
WESTWOOD, JOHN Age 50
GRO Reference: 1847 S Quarter in DUDLEY UNION Volume 18 Page 193
This suggests that John was born in 1897 and therefor unlikely to be the John baptised in 1805.

There is quite a lot of evidence to support the theory that John (b.1805) (the one with wife Hannah) should be linked to Joseph and Ann/Nancy, not least because of the approximate birth date. Also, there is the proximity on censuses. For example, they are the next household to Joseph and Nancy in 1841:
HO107/997/8/14/19 and 20 - Old Hill, Rowley Regis
John WESTWOOD,M,35,,Y
Rosannah WESTWOOD,F,30,,Y
Richard WESTWOOD,M,3,,Y
Olive WESTWOOD,F,10m,,Y

Also, in 1851 they are the next household to Isaac WESTWOOD (b.1807) and his wife Mary (BRETTLE):
HO107/2028/254/28/sch 103 - Old Hill, Rowley Regis.
John Westwood Head M 46 Nail maker
Hannah Wife M 38 Brick Maker
Richard Son 13 Ironstone Miner
Olive Dau 10 Nail maker
Thomas Son 8 Scholar
(All born Rowley Regis) and
James Batty Son of wife 17 Coal Miner Born Dudley
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Re: John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby Northern Lass » Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:51 am

So what about Jane Westwood?

is she not the dau then of Mary Vanes and John Westwood
Jane Westwood
1841 Old Hill Rowley Regis
Joseph Westwood 70 Carter
Ann Westwood 70
Jane Westwood 9
All born in County

death could be JOhn married to Mary Vanes ...have added in as a possible
but could he not have had a late baptism?
If Jane is John and mary Janes then looks like she is g.dau to Joseph and Nancy.
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Re: John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby nugentsmith » Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:21 pm

I agree that Jane Westwood is a problem!
However, I do have difficulty with the distance between Jane (Old Hill and Waterfall Lane area) and John and Mary at Greystone Street, close to Dudley High Street - a long way in the 1840s.
Work in progress ...
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Re: John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby nugentsmith » Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:22 pm

I now have a certificate for the death of John WESTWOOD:
WESTWOOD, JOHN 50 GRO Reference: 1847 S Quarter in DUDLEY UNION Volume 18 Page 193

D/1847/Dudley Union/Dudley/No. 435 - reg 24/7/1847

Death on 21st July 1847 at Grey Stone Street Dudley of John WESTWOOD, Male, 50 years, Carter. Cause: Apoplexy, Paralysis. Informant: (X The Mark of) Elizabeth Vanes Present at the Death, of Grey Stone Street Dudley.
This appears to suggest that it is the John married to Mary VANES.
Still working on Jane!
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Re: John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby Northern Lass » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:30 am

Great stuff Nugentsmith have added to bcc thanks
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Re: John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby nugentsmith » Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:59 am

I now have death certificates for the “other” John and his wife Rosannah.

WESTWOOD, JOHN Age 78 GRO Reference: 1883 J Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 10
D/1883/Dudley/Rowley Regis/No. 491 - reg 14th May 1883
Death on 13th May 1883 at Terrace Street of John WESTWOOD, Male, 78 Years, Formerly a Nailer. Cause of Death: Senectus. Informant: Olive HIGGITT Daughter in attendance, of Terrace Street Rowley Regis.

WESTWOOD, ROSANNAH Age 87 GRO Reference: 1898 D Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 12
1898/Deaths/Dudley/Rowley Regis/No. 363 - reg 12th December 1898
Death on 11th December 1898 at Terrace Street of Rosannah WESTWOOD, Female, 87 years, Widow of John Westwood, Nailer. Cause: Senility. Informant: Olive HIGGITT Daughter, of Terrace Street, Black Heath Rowley Regis.

Alas, this doesn’t help to identify the family, but does give a new connection.
On the 1881 Census - RG11/2859/50/38/sch 208 - Terrace Street, Rowley Regis.

David HIGGITT,Head,Mar,M,35,Signal Man at Old Hill Station,Worcestershire UK,
Olive HIGGITT,Wife,Mar,F,40,,Old Hill, Staffordshire, UK,
Mary HIGGITT,Daughter,Unm,F,11,,Langley, Worcestershire, UK,
Mary SMITH,Daughter,Unm,F,11,,Old Hill, Staffordshire, UK,
Thomas H HIGGITT,Son,Unm,M,10,,Langley, Worcestershire, UK,
Olive SMITH,Daughter,Unm,F,9,,Old Hill, Staffordshire, UK,
John HIGGITT,Son,Unm,M,1m,,Rowley Regis, Staffordshire, UK,
James HIGGITT,Son,Unm,M,1m,,Rowley Regis, Staffordshire, UK,

This is a second marriage for both David and Olive – from FreeBMD:
Marriages Sep 1880 Stourbridge 6c 223
Higgitt David and Smith Olive

From copy register on Ancestry:
M/1880/Worcestershire/Quinton Parish Church/No 450
Marriage on 10th August 1880 at Quinton Parish Church of David HIGGITT, Full Age, Widower, a Pointsman of Warley and Olive SMITH, Full Age, Widow of Warley. Fathers: Samuel Higgit, Miner; John Westwood, Labourer. Witnesses: David Detheridge and Hannah Deeley

This appears to be the David HIGGITT b.1846 on BCC.

I am still working on Jane!!
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Re: John westwood which family should he be with.

Postby Northern Lass » Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:48 am

Great work thanks have connected up :wink:
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