1939 WWII

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1939 WWII

Postby Kizmiester » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:00 am

Good morning everyone,

I have been looking into my Grandfather and it turn out that he was in the war during WWII to some extent. If the information is correct he was only 13 at the time as he was born in 1926. I've heard rumours through the family that he was in the Merchant Navy at this time. Can anybody confirm or add to the information I have please.

Ernest Alfred KENT
DOB 04 04 1926
POB Salford Manchester

I have a WWII document which I found with watermarks all over which I will try to attach, if that is actually a thing on here.

Thank you.

PS, it turns out I cant attach a pdf to this post, so on the document he had a number underneath his name - R.293070
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Re: 1939 WWII

Postby gardener » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:35 pm

Hi

Yes, there is a medal record for him - perhaps that is what you have?

Name: Ernest Alfred Kent
Birth Date: 4 Apr 1926
Service: 1939-1945
Medal Issued/Claimed: 1946-2002
Discharge Number: R293070

And also a record from a ship he served on:

Name: Ernest A Kent
Arrival Date: 22 Sep 1944
Birth Date: abt 1926
Age: 18 Years 6 Months
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: British (English)
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Fort Panmure

That document has more information:

Kent Ernest A; 15 months [length of service]; O.S.; 31.8.44 Manchester [shipped or engaged when and where]; No [whether to be discharged at port of arrival]; Yes [whether able to read]; 18 1/2; male; British; English; 5' 9''; 150LBS; None [distinguishing marks]

So that suggests he joined the merchant navy in early 1943.

Was he a schoolboy with his parents in Derbyshire in 1939?
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Re: 1939 WWII

Postby Kizmiester » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:27 am

Hiya Gardener,

Thank you so much for taking time to find this out. Yes I did have the first bit. And yes he was on the 1939 Census as being at school so I didn't understand if the document I found suggested that he left that year to go into the service.
I also found the ship boarding info but wasn't sure if it referred to him or not, so disregarded it without actually looking at it. And the ship details are excellent with more detailed info. Would you know if there is any way to find out when he left the Merchant Navy.

Thank you again,

Kieron.
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Re: 1939 WWII

Postby peterd » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:39 am

it says in the last sentence

"Kent Ernest A; 15 months [length of service]; "
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Re: 1939 WWII

Postby gardener » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:17 pm

peterd wrote:it says in the last sentence

"Kent Ernest A; 15 months [length of service]; "


Yes but that is how long he had served at that point. It doesn't indicate when he left
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Re: 1939 WWII

Postby gardener » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:19 pm

There is another entry which must be his first voyage

Name: Ernest Alfred Kent
Arrival Date: 23 Oct 1943
Birth Date: abt 1926
Age: 17
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: English
Port of Departure: Manchester, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Pacific Exporter

No[not on last voyage to US]; Kent Ernest Alfred,; nil; Deck boy;shipped on 29.9.43; Manchester; no; Yes ; 17; M; English; British; 5' 7''; 110 LBS; nil


You may be able to see all the information on the medal card without buying it https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov. ... r/D4349384
the abbreviations are explained here https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov. ... r/h/C16055

His papers "may" be in this series of documents https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov. ... /C10989165 but they have not been digitised so someone would have to go to Kew to see them
(I got there from this thread https://www.merchant-navy.net/forum/req ... -book.html You could maybe have a look around that site too)
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Re: 1939 WWII

Postby Kizmiester » Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:45 pm

Hiya Gardener,

OMG you're awesome!

So he served 15 months on the Fort Panmure but also served before that on the Pacific Exporter for X amount of time. That's great info. LOL looks like he gained 40lbs during his sea voyages too :P

Thank you.

Kieron.
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Re: 1939 WWII

Postby gardener » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:54 pm

I think 15 months is the total time up to that particular voyage. It seems that they signed on for a voyage and I think I read that they were free to change ships, but after 1941 they could be allocated as crew. Not totally sure about that,

The Fort Panmure arrived New York on 22.9.44 from Liverpool
Ernest had served a total of 15 months by then (length of service at sea) and shipped on the Fort Panmure on 31.8.44
A couple of pages before is a declaration by the Master
Port of New York 10.10.1944
I master of the British S.S. Fort Panmure from port of Liverpool hereby certify that the following is a complete record of all changes in the personnel of the crew of said vessel since arrival at this port:
Total crew at time of arrival: 48
Number of seamen desserted: 1
Number of seamen discharged: 1
Seamen left in hospital:1
Number of seamen signed on at this port: 3
Total crew this date: 48
The above named vessel arrived at this port Sept 22 1944, consigned to Boyd, Weir and Sewell Inc.; is now lying at 3 Staten island, and is expected to sail Oct 11 1944 for Ancona, Italy.

The other record is
M.V. Pacific Exporter arriving at New York 23.10.43 from the port of Manchester
Nil (length of service at sea) and shipped 29.9.43

A couple of pages before is a declaration by the Master

Port of New York 5.11.1943
I master of the British S.S. Pacific Exporter from port of Liverpool hereby certify that the following is a complete record of all changes in the personnel of the crew of said vessel since arrival at this port:
Total crew at time of arrival: 69
Number of seamen desserted: 0
Number of seamen discharged: 1
Seamen left in hospital (or died):1
Number of seamen signed on at this port: 2
Total crew this date: 69
The above named vessel arrived at this port Oct 23 1943, consigned to Furness Withy and Co. Ltd.; is now lying at Pier 86, and is expected to sail 5th Nov 1943 under Admiralty orders.

If the Pacific Exporter was his first voyage then it is not 15 months by the time he is on the Fort Panure, so that may be a slight miscalculation.

Obviously this only shows up ships that docked in New York. You have a bit of a gap between the 1939 register and 1943. He could have been at sea then too. Perhaps he decided to make it more formal and join the Merchant Navy so that he could continue working like this rather than join the army or navy. It must have been a very difficult and dangerous job that he did.
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Re: 1939 WWII

Postby gardener » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:56 pm

Kizmiester wrote: LOL looks like he gained 40lbs during his sea voyages too :P

Thank you.

Kieron.


He was a growing boy - I have less excuse ;-)
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Re: 1939 WWII

Postby gardener » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:55 pm

There are some pictures of the Pacific Exporter at the bottom here http://www.clydeships.co.uk/view.php?ref=2511#v

The Fort Panmure must have been almost spanking new, built in Canada in 1943 http://shipbuildinghistory.com/canadaships/wwtwo.htm
"North Vancouver SR N. Vancouver BC 130 Fort Panmure 7,155 7-Oct-43 Later Sunvalley 1948, Kally 1960, scrapped 1966"
so this one I think http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/pho ... id=2463896
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Re: 1939 WWII

Postby Kizmiester » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:01 pm

Thank you Sir,

Your help has been priceless. :grin:

Kieron.
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