LONGLAND assistance with Andrew please

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LONGLAND assistance with Andrew please

Postby Longies » Fri May 24, 2019 6:45 am

Morning all,

Doing research on the LONGLAND family name and I stay in South Africa (SA).

I have a death notice (DN) of Andrew LONGLAND and the most important details are as follows:
- date of death 19 Sep 1901
- place of death Cape Town
- age at death 40
- race : European (Cape Colony)

This is all I have on Andrew and to date I could not find a birth or baptism record of any kind. Based on info on the DN he was thus born about 1861. The fact that his race is shown as European (Cape Colony) is open to interpretation - does that mean he was born in Cape Colony (in SA)? Or why was the Cape Colony written down next to the race? (See later question).

Some other background info I wish to share to put all in perspective. The ancestors in our existing LONGLAND tree are John Spencer LONGLAND and his wife Mary LONGLAND (nee Cooper). They together with their daughter Zilpha arrived in SA on the ship Susan during January 1846. This piece of information can (fortunately) be verified in the book from Esme Bull (Aided Immigration from Britain to South Africa). Now in this book there are no other LONGLAND names mentioned - which I understand one must be careful to make hasty conclusion purely based on that. Point is however "all indications" are there, that at least in the period 1846-1860 somewhere there "was probably only one LONGLAND couple" on record that was in SA at that time. Now John and Mary's last (known) child was born during December 1857, while they were staying in the Tulbagh area in the Cape Colony.

The question thus arises: Where does Andrew fit in?

In the last will of John and Mary they only mentioned their two sons John and David. It is "highly unlikely" that they would have omitted or excluded Andrew, if Andrew was their child. So based on this I do not think that Andrew is a child of John and Mary.

Now the question arises: Was Andrew born in SA or in England?

The note on the death notice of Andrew at race (European (Cape Colony)) is open for interpretation. If he was born in Cape Colony (in other words South Africa), I would have hoped that I could find either some record of birth or baptism which to date I have not found. Now I understand that people were not legally bound to register births during 1860's, but it seems "most people" actually did it (probably due to how they were used it was done in England). But to summarize - the fact that I could to date not find anything, I admit does not mean he was not born in SA.

I could also not find any record of immigration on any other LONGLAND person or couple, apart from John and Mary in the book from Esme Bull. But again I understand that record keeping were poor during that time and many passengers were not even listed on the passenger lists. The mere fact that there is no proof of Andrew arriving in SA on his own or his parents, is a simple proof of this fact. They obviously did arrive via ship (either Andrew by himself or his parents) as they did not arrive via plane :) :)

I could not find any births/baptisms of a Andrew LONGLAND in the time span of 1858 to 1868 on GRO, FreeBMD, FindMyPast or ukcensusonline. Remember the DN indicates he was born about 1861. Now I also believe that not all births/baptisms have been registered, or it might have been registered but not captured on these mentioned web sites. Nothing is cast in stone :)

So I am hoping if someone might be able to assist, with info they have.

My thought process is the following options:
1. assistance with proof of emigration to SA. This could be either parents of Andrew (in this case somewhere in the time span 1820-1861 if he was born in SA during 1861) or of Andrew by himself - in this case probably after 1880 somewhere (???) when he would have been "old enough".
2. where was Andrew born in 1861? Was he indeed born in England (and then emigrated to SA later)
3. And the ultimate prize: Who was the parents of Andrew?

Apologies for the long discussion, but I wanted to give all info I have to put things into perspective and to avoid possible questions that might pop up in any case as a reaction.

Hope to hear from the community with only good news :) :)

Regards.

Johan Longland
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Re: LONGLAND assistance with Andrew please

Postby SRD » Fri May 24, 2019 7:39 am

I see from the death notice pictured on Family Search (the Mormon genealogy site) that the informant of Andrew's death was an Ellen Hart, might it be worth seeing if you can find more info about her, she might have been his daughter who married a man called Hart.
Currently investigating the Hillmans of Sussex.
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Re: LONGLAND assistance with Andrew please

Postby Longies » Fri May 24, 2019 8:05 am

Yes, I have done some research there but it has not given any better indication as to where he was born or who his parents were.

I will share the info on the HART family in "flat text" style.

"male" HART (name unknown)
x Ellen KALIS
- Frederick George HART *abt June 1861 Simon's Town, SA
x Annie Johanna RHODA
- Elizabeth *1888
- Evelyn *1896
- Esther *1900
- Sidney Kenneth Reginald *1906

Now I also have info on the baptism of Louisa Florence LONGLENT daughter of Andrew LONGLENT and Eva Elizabeth LONGLENT, with witness of Annie HART. The spelling of LONGLENT I assume very strongly is wrong and should have been LONGLAND (no Longlent records found on any website). And off-course the "link" to the HART family on the baptism record.

So to answer you. Yes, I do think that Ellen HART (informant on his death notice) might have been his mother-in-law as he "probably" married Eva Elizabeth HART. The fact that Annie HART was a witness at the baptism of Andrew's daughter (in Johannesburg, SA), just makes me wonder whether Annie HART (nee RHODA) was maybe a sister of Eva Elizabeth?

But it is also a fact that Andrew LONGLAND was eventually buried in the "same grave" as the other members of the HART family (in Mowbray, Cape Town) and at time of death he actually stayed at the same place as the HART family (6 Trill Road, Observatory). So there was for sure a link with the HART family - Ellen HART "probably" a mother-in-law and thus married to Eva Elizabeth HART. But even this "probable" fact has not given me an answer on where Andrew was born or who his parents was (to allow me to determine a link with the LONGLAND tree I have).

I just enjoy these puzzles.

Johan
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Re: LONGLAND assistance with Andrew please

Postby Longies » Fri May 24, 2019 8:49 am

Just to clarify.

Frederick George HART married Annie Johanna RHODA and their first child was Elizabeth Johanna HART born 1888. This Elizabeth is not the Eva Elizabeth LONGLENT (LONGLAND) who was married to Andrew LONGLENT (LONGLAND).

My assumption is that Eva Elizabeth LONGLENT (LONGLAND) was a sister of Frederick George HART, which would make Ellen HART the mother-in-law of Andrew. Therefore the name of Ellen HART on the death notice as informant.

But to date I could not find birth or baptism records on any of these HART family members, even though it is stated on the death notice of Frederick George that he was born in Simon's Town. So yes, I have tried to find info on the HART family to determine who was who, but no success to date.

Johan
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