POWELL families of North London?

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Re: POWELL families of North London?

Postby kr236rk » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:12 pm

SRD wrote:The 1939 Register might give your father's and grand-parents place of abode, date of birth & occupation although, being 19, he may already have joined up by then. If he lived in what is now the Greater London area he may also appear in the electoral roll/voters lists for the post war era.


Thanks, found that yesterday at the library ;) they were living in Bromley, my father hadn't joined up at that stage, my grandfather was a carpet fitter, he'd been a soldier in one of the Kent regiments yet he is listed as being born in Hammersmith. So he probably met my grandmother when she moved from London to Bromley - he may have been in barracks at Bromley? Whoever transcripted the census has got 'meter tester' (occupation) down as "meter texter", I had to smile.
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Re: POWELL families of North London?

Postby kr236rk » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:34 pm

BC Wench wrote:
Ethel (Adelaide) Innell is the daughter of Louisa Mary (1860) & John Innell.


"Louisa Mary Kemp [nee Innell], Wife, 28", my paternal grandmother. But nowhere currently is her occupation listed, this might explain why she removed to Bromley from London? It's curious that she is listed as married in 1911, while living in London; yet her spouse Arthur Kemp seems to be associated with Bromley? He was a soldier in one of the Kent regiments I believe - all that information was with my father's half-brother (George Kemp?) who was a Kemp solicitor of Old Street London, but he has disappeared. My grandfather kept an army diary, the half-brother had that. All attempts to find him have been in vain.

Our family used to visit Ethel Innell at Battersea when she was very ancient (bless), I think she resided at alms houses there. Her name always stayed with me because it was quite unusual in the 1960s, I'd not heard women called that name in the modern era.

John Pensotti is new to me - with thanks.

John Innell (senior) descended from a coach varnishing family who were quite 'well to do' in Victorian London. No-one knows the meaning of this surname - I think it is anglicised O'Neill, I could be wrong.

What does it mean when a record is closed please?

Million thanks for all your help! :)
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Re: POWELL families of North London?

Postby SRD » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:09 am

"Closed Record" means that the person is probably still alive. If you have proof otherwise you can apply to have the record opened.
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Re: POWELL families of North London?

Postby BC Wench » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:06 am

Your Grandmother Louisa Mary Kemp nee Innell (1883) who was named in the 1911 Census living in Hampstead:-

1911 Census: 33 Park Dwellings, Hampstead, London N.W.
John Innell, Head.Mar, 50, Cleaner at Town Hall/Boro' Council, City Rd., London
Louisa Mary Innell, Wife, 51, Hampstead, London Married: 30yrs 6 Children 5 Living 1 Died
John Edward Innell, Son.Single, 22, Engine Cleaner/Gt Northern Railway, Dalston, London
Louisa Mary (Innell) Kemp, Dau.Married, 27, Islington, London Married: Under one year No Children (INNELL SURNAME CROSSED THROUGH)
Winifred Sarah Innell, Dau, 12, Hampstead

was entered on the census by mistake (John Innell signed his name on the bottom of the census) as she was married and living with her husband Arthur Kemp here:-

1911 Census: 35 Bromley Gardens, Bromley, Kent
Arthur Kemp, Head.Married, 41, Carpet planner, Hammersmith
Louisa Mary Kemp, Wife, 28, Dalston Married: One yr No Children
George Thomas Kemp, Son.Single, 15, Errand Boy (Drapery), Beckenham
Katheline Goldsmith, Border.Wid, 59, Dress Maker, Tonbridge Wells
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Re: POWELL families of North London?

Postby kr236rk » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:27 pm

SRD wrote:"Closed Record" means that the person is probably still alive. If you have proof otherwise you can apply to have the record opened.


Thanks but Catch-22, who is the person? There is a married individual named Sylvia, her spouse Robert who lived at the same address passed over many, many years ago. His name does not appear on the census. He could have been called up by this stage however.
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Re: POWELL families of North London?

Postby kr236rk » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:55 pm

BC Wench wrote:Your Grandmother Louisa Mary Kemp nee Innell (1883) who was named in the 1911 Census living in Hampstead ... was entered on the census by mistake (John Innell signed his name on the bottom of the census) as she was married and living with her husband Arthur Kemp here:- 1911 Census: 35 Bromley Gardens, Bromley, Kent
Arthur Kemp, Head.Married, 41, Carpet planner, Hammersmith
Louisa Mary Kemp, Wife, 28, Dalston Married: One yr No Children
George Thomas Kemp, Son. Single, 15, Errand Boy (Drapery), Beckenham


Many thanks :)

"No children" yet a son (to Arthur) one George Thomas Kemp (15 years old) who must have been my father's 'half-brother'.

Like to know what Louisa Mary did - her occupation - between the ages of 15 and 28, before she was married? It might throw more light on her move to Bromley / patterns of employment in the Powell family?

Surely there's a census which will show her unmarried occupation?
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Re: POWELL families of North London?

Postby BC Wench » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:21 pm

kr236rk wrote:
BC Wench wrote:Your Grandmother Louisa Mary Kemp nee Innell (1883) who was named in the 1911 Census living in Hampstead ... was entered on the census by mistake (John Innell signed his name on the bottom of the census) as she was married and living with her husband Arthur Kemp here:- 1911 Census: 35 Bromley Gardens, Bromley, Kent
Arthur Kemp, Head.Married, 41, Carpet planner, Hammersmith
Louisa Mary Kemp, Wife, 28, Dalston Married: One yr No Children
George Thomas Kemp, Son. Single, 15, Errand Boy (Drapery), Beckenham


Many thanks :)

"No children" yet a son (to Arthur) one George Thomas Kemp (15 years old) who must have been my father's 'half-brother'.

Like to know what Louisa Mary did - her occupation - between the ages of 15 and 28, before she was married? It might throw more light on her move to Bromley / patterns of employment in the Powell family?

Surely there's a census which will show her unmarried occupation?


" No children" means there are no children born between the marriage of Arthur & Louisa Mary. It looks very much to me as though Arthur must have been married before as he states that George Thomas is his son.

The next available census is the 1921 which won't be available until 2022 because of the 100 year ruling.
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Re: POWELL families of North London?

Postby BC Wench » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:25 pm

kr236rk wrote:
SRD wrote:"Closed Record" means that the person is probably still alive. If you have proof otherwise you can apply to have the record opened.


Thanks but Catch-22, who is the person? There is a married individual named Sylvia, her spouse Robert who lived at the same address passed over many, many years ago. His name does not appear on the census. He could have been called up by this stage however.


These are the only children of Kemp & Innell I can see on FreeBMD

Births Dec 1911
Kemp Sylvia P Innell Bromley 2a 993

Births Jun 1913
Kemp Jack A Innell Bromley 2a 1089

Births Mar 1918
Kemp Reginald Innell Bromley 2a 743

Sylvia P Kemp, who is on the 1939 Register with her parents listed as Sylvia P Mockridge looks as though she married Robert W Mockridge in 1933:-

MARRIAGE:
Name: Sylvia P Kemp
Registration Date: Apr-May-Jun 1933
Registration district: Bromley
Inferred County: Kent
Spouse: Robert W Mockridge
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 1612

Then looking for children of Mockridge & Kemp on FreeBMD

Births Jun 1939
Mockridge Peter R Kemp Bromley 2a 1139

Births Mar 1946
Mockridge David M Kemp Bromley 2a 1462

So it's quite possible that the "closed record" on the 1939 Register could be Peter R Mockridge the son of Sylvia & Robert Mockridge. David M was born after the 1939 Register.

This could be Sylvia's husband

First name(s) Robert William
Last name Mockridge
Birth year 1908
Birth date 17 Apr 1908
Birth town Beckenham
Birth county Kent
Occupation General Clerk
Attestation year 1927
Attestation date 30 Mar 1927
Attestation age 18
Service number 505799
Archive reference AIR 79/3017
Next of kin first name(s) -
Next of kin last name Mockridge
Record set British Royal Air Force, Airmen's Service Records 1912-1939
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & service records
Collections from Great Britain, England
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Re: POWELL families of North London?

Postby kr236rk » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:11 pm

BC Wench wrote:
" No children" means there are no children born between the marriage of Arthur & Louisa Mary. It looks very much to me as though Arthur must have been married before as he states that George Thomas is his son.

The next available census is the 1921 which won't be available until 2022 because of the 100 year ruling.



Many thanks.
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Re: POWELL families of North London?

Postby kr236rk » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:59 pm

kr236rk wrote:
BC Wench wrote:This is how I see it


1841: Flask Walk, St John Hampstead, Edmonton, Middlesex & London, England,
Thomas Powell, 43, Labourer, Not born in County 1798


Many thanks! :)

When it says "Not born in County" does this mean the county of London please, & if so, where did the county extend to in 1841, so that I could search neighbouring counties for Thomas Powell's birth details?


Found this - looks interesting? Thomas' birth year, on different documents, seems to move about between 1791-1798 I noticed. A long shot, this is a common name at this time.

Powell Thos. 1792 England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975 Mitcham, Surrey, England
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Re: POWELL families of North London?

Postby kr236rk » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:45 pm

BC Wench wrote:Wife of Thomas Powell:
Baptism: 21 November 1817 St John, Hampstead, Middlesex
Charlotte (Born 3 Apr 1803) - William & Elizabeth Willoughby - Hampstead - Shoemaker


This means Charlotte (nee) Willoughby wasn't baptised until she was 14 years old please?
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Re: POWELL families of North London?

Postby kr236rk » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:56 pm

Also found:-

POWELL, Thomas. 1860 England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005. Wandsworth, London, England.

Found under ‘spouse Charlotte’ – so is this a related POWELL family in Surrey?

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/res ... at+britain
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