Wildsmith/William Badger - Chelsea Pensioners - lookup

[FarSide]

Hi
Have a couple of questions regarding this ancestor of mine
Appreciate if someone could have a look in the Chelsea Pensioners for me..

Found him in the poor law in Oldswinford 1779
Wildsmith and/or William Badger, private soldier in 3rd. Div, Marines, b at Oldswinford 1752 (bapt 6th July) the son of William Badger & Mary of Oldswinford, husband of Elizabeth whom he married at Tettenhall in 1775 & father of Susann b 1776, Nancy b 1777, William b 1778. Employed by Thomas Dethick of Hagley at 4 (pounds) p.a.

Does anyone know what the 3rd Div Marines would be?
The word marine makes me think sailor, do you think it's something to do with the American Revolution?

Employed by Thomas Dethick of Hagley at 4 (pounds) p.a. Does this mean employed as a private solder?

Thanks in advance

[apowell]

Hi,

A really interesting post and not easy to work out

He won't be listed in FMP because you're right the Marines were soldiers who fought on/from Royal Navy ships including on land but received their pension from the Navy not Army. These records are only kept at the National Archives in Kew under ADM (Records of the Admiralty, Naval Forces, Royal Marines, Coastguard, and related bodies). I've checked the National Archives ADM for him but no luck but did find others who had served with the 3rd. Div, Marines so I must be looking in the right place.

I'm afraid this will need detailed research because the Royal Marines were drafted to serve on any of the Royal Navy warships and that's a lot of ships.

The period of his service could tally with him fighting during the American Revolution but the Marines were stationed all over the World and in 1776 the Marine Corp comprised of 25,000 Marines.

I suggest you contact the Royal Marines Museum as you first stage:
www.royalmarinesmuseum.co.uk

I'm afraid no idea regarding Thomas Dethick:

Good luck.
Adrian

[MarkCDodd]

"Private Soldier" simply means he had the rank of Private. The term derives from Lords and other nobles hiring local men to be part of a militia in medieval times. They were the lowest ranking soldiers and the terms "Private Soldier" was used to designate their lowly rank. Military tradition continued to use this term for the lowest ranked soldier even when they were members the national armed services.

[FarSide]

Thanks Adrian & Mark for the replies

Here I was thinking mercenary..

I have emailed the royal marines museum, fingers crossed.

[FarSide]

Back again..
Is it possible to get a Chelsea Pensioners lookup for this guy..
Thanks

WO Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Division within WO Records of the Royal Chelsea and Kilmainham Hospitals
WO 121 Royal Hospital, Chelsea: Discharge Documents of Pensioners
Certificates of Service (disability or reason for discharge, length of service, rank, regiment, age, place of birth and trade on enlistment)
WO 121/21 Certificates of service (disability or reason for discharge, length of service, rank, regiment, age, place of birth and trade on enlistment)

Record Summary
Scope and content WILLIAM BADGER
Born OLD SWINFORD, Worcestershire
Served in other regiment(s) unspecified; 16th Foot Regiment
Discharged aged 30 after 12 years of service
Covering dates 1795
Held by The National Archives, Kew

[feral-underclass]

army soldiers were placed on ships. a number of soldiers were issued the naval general service medal for action between 1793- 1840

hope this makes sense

beardie

[apowell]

Hi,

Gosh I seem to keep bringing you bad news

The range of pension records online have only been completed from the National archive series:
TNA record series numbers are ‘WO96’ and ‘WO97’

Your chap is covered under 'WO121'

I'm sure they will be updating the series but no idea when.

What are the British Army Service Records?

These records comprise Chelsea Pensioners British Army Service Records 1760-1913 and Militia Service Records 1806-1915.

Many of your ancestors will have had a period of time in the army and these records provide rich detail about them. The Chelsea Pensioners British Army Service Records provide information on men pensioned out of the British Army 1760-1915. The connection with ‘Chelsea Pensioners’ is that the pensions were administered through The Royal Hospital at Chelsea. The great majority of pensioned soldiers were out-pensioners and did not reside at the Hospital itself.

The Militia was a voluntary county-based part-time force for home defence. It ceased to be summoned after the Civil War but was revived in 1757, when the Militia Act established militia regiments in all counties of England and Wales. All pre-20th century males were obliged to serve in the militia so you are likely to find information about your ancestors here. There are also details about the professions these men worked in as, for most of the time, they would be engaged in a regular job.

You may come across reference to attestation papers. This refers to the official papers written for a soldier upon joining.

These records are brought to you online in association with The National Archives (TNA). The TNA record series numbers are ‘WO96’ and ‘WO97’: WO simply indicates that the records were created by the War Office, the precursor of today’s Ministry of Defence.

Regards
Adrian

[apowell]

Hi,

This may interest you because seems the same chap:

WILLIAM BADGER Born [Not Known] Served in 16th Foot Regiment; East London Militia Discharged aged ...
Royal Hospital, Chelsea: Discharge Documents of Pensioners. WILLIAM BADGER Born [Not Known] Served in 16th Foot Regiment; East London Militia Discharged aged [Not Known].
Collection: Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Date range: 01 January 1799 - 31 December 1799
Reference:WO 121/148/323
Subjects: Military personnel, Regiments and Corps

He must have resided in London and served with the Militia .

Oh dear again kept in the WO121 series.

You can order copies via National Archive website or pay some to copy them for you but it at a price, however if you are able to visit them the documents are free to view.
Regards
Adrian

[apowell]

Hi,

The 16th Regiment of foot did indeed take part in the American war of independence 1775-1782, however looking at William's date of discharge 1795 and the 12 years service gives us rough dates served 1783-1795.

It's possible that on the 16th Regiments return to the UK in 1783 they recruited new recruits to replace soldiers lost and the date of 1783 fits.

The 16th (the Buckinghamshire) Regiment of Foot

1782. Their losses in America force their return to England from South America, arriving in March. On the 31st August the Regiment is authorised to use the title 'The 16th (the Buckinghamshire) Regiment of Foot' to encourage enlistment from that region and create a county identity. The American War finished. It is about now that the nickname 'The Old Bucks' is initially used, reflecting the regiment's long service.
1784. Moved to Ireland as a small peacetime regiment.
1790. Embarked for Nova Scotia 18th August.
1791. Removed to Jamaica as a result of the unrest caused by the French Revolution, where they serve for 5 years.
1793. A detachment leaves Jamaica for St. Domingo following the island's plantation owners agreeing to become part oof the British Empire following several slave rebellions.
1794. An entire detachment at St. Domingo perish from fever, apart from 1 Officer and 1 Sergeant who rejoin at Jamaica.
1795. Engaged in the Maroon Wars on Jamaica.
1796. The Maroons submit. The remnants of the regiment lave for England at the end of the year, landing at Greenwich the next year.

However if he was discharged in 1795 this sounds like he was in England while the Regiment was abroad because they didn't return to home until 1796 ??

You'll need to check his service records (should include other dates of other Regiments served) and also the muster and pay rolls of the 16th to confirm his exact whereabouts.

Good luck
Adrian

[apowell]

Hi again,

If you look at his service details he must have been aged around 18 years when he enlisted but this could have been with other Regiments because we don't now when he served with the 16th.

Adrian

[FarSide]

Hi Adrian & Beardie

Thanks for the explanation and the detail, helps my understanding of timelines..
I find this era very interesting, I'm currently watching a two part series called the 1812 war
though it's very American it's fascinating.

I had a look at the national archives site, searching for the muster and pay rolls
made my head spin I was going around in circles..
will have another search tomorrow.

I'm in NZ, a little off the beaten track, I will order his service record and go from there.

Cheers