ARC TBC - Dudley, Hillman and Jewkes

[chrishillman]

I'd appreciate some help!

I'm trying to trace a marriage between Sarah Dudley (spelt Dudly on IGI) and ? Hillman. The facts that I have are as follows:

Sarah Dudley - born 5 Apr 1819, christened 27 May 1819 Wesleyan Methodist, Tipton Green. Father is William and mother is Sarah.

2 March 1854 - Sarah married by licence Joseph Jewkes in Dudley (I have the marriage cert) - she is listed as Sarah Hillman - widow - and her father is William Dudley (a butcher).

I'm trying to find out details of her first marriage. I suppose its possible that it might be recorded in the Wesleyan records....

It is also possible that it might be to a Joseph Hillman - the 1841 census has a Joseph Hollman (b 1816) and a Sarah Hollman (b 1820) living in West Bromwich although I can't read the entry on ancestry. I have located a Joseph Hillman (d 1849) in Stourbridge which might fit in terms of Sarah then being a widow.

Anyway, any help would be appreciated!

[rockyfowler]

2 Mar 1854 St Thomas Dudley
Joseph JEWKES F W Superintendant Dudley Father Joseph Jewkes Constable
Sarah HILLMAN F W Police Dudley Father William Dudley Dead Butcher
After Banns Joseph Signed The X Of Sarah
Wit; Hannah Davies Thomas Davies John A "“?

[chrishillman]

Rocky - thanks...but I have that particular marriage certificate. I'm after Sarah's previous marriage...

[linell]

I can't find a Marriage On Line for a Sarah Dudley and a Hillman, but then not all Parish's are on line. You say that Sarah's 2nd Marriage to Joseph Jewkes was by License, there will be a copy of that License at the Archives, which will give a lot more detail than the Marriage Certificate. Did Sarah have any Hillman children? I doubt that the Joseph Hillman who's death you found Registered in Stourbridge would be for someone living in West Bromwich, would have had a West Bromwich Registration District. If you search Free BMD for deaths of a Hillman there are a lot of them in that time frame. HTH from Linell.

[linell]

Sarah Dudley - born 5 Apr 1819, christened 27 May 1819 Wesleyan Methodist, Tipton Green. Father is William and mother is Sarah.

I would look this baptism up and see if Wm was a Butcher??

Linell.

[rockyfowler]

Rocky - thanks...but I have that particular marriage certificate. I'm after Sarah's previous marriage...

The number of times people say this is unbelievable - if I needed help- its best to put as much detail as possible on- it gives a fresh look at the facts from other eyes best RF

[chrishillman]

I can't find a Marriage On Line for a Sarah Dudley and a Hillman, but then not all Parish's are on line. You say that Sarah's 2nd Marriage to Joseph Jewkes was by License, there will be a copy of that License at the Archives, which will give a lot more detail than the Marriage Certificate. Did Sarah have any Hillman children? I doubt that the Joseph Hillman who's death you found Registered in Stourbridge would be for someone living in West Bromwich, would have had a West Bromwich Registration District. If you search Free BMD for deaths of a Hillman there are a lot of them in that time frame. HTH from Linell.

Thank you for the response. The point re the additional info on the marriage licence itself is not one I've thought about. I haven't found any children as yet for her - I'll have another look at BMD but I am pretty certain I've tried that (more than once). Yes, Stourbridge is a bit distant to West Bromwich.

[chrishillman]

Sarah Dudley - born 5 Apr 1819, christened 27 May 1819 Wesleyan Methodist, Tipton Green. Father is William and mother is Sarah.

I would look this baptism up and see if Wm was a Butcher??

Linell.

Another good idea..thank you.

[Northern Lass]

Delete this post pls maggs

[Jimmy]

2 Mar 1854 St Thomas Dudley
Joseph JEWKES F W Superintendant Dudley Father Joseph Jewkes Constable
Sarah HILLMAN F W Police Dudley Father William Dudley Dead Butcher
After Banns Joseph Signed The X Of Sarah
Wit; Hannah Davies Thomas Davies John A "“?

Have you found these in census's after marriage, to confirm Sarah's age.

[chrishillman]

Hi Chris

Have we got any of this lot on the BCC tree?

cant see Sarah Dudley on

No - none of it. I have 1200 odd names in my "connected" tree (ok..it does take in distant relations and even the royal family!) and I certainly don't have b,m.d certs for it all either (just the main line of the tree). I also have 6000+ names on my unconnected Hillman database (lots in Surrey, Devon, Somerset, Oxfordshire and masses in West Midlands). I can't however match the Sarah Dudley (even just using the name Sarah), with any Hillman's that I have on record and which fit the approximate dates and location.

I strongly suspect that I need to take a closer look at some of the "non-conformist" registers.

[chrishillman]

2 Mar 1854 St Thomas Dudley
Joseph JEWKES F W Superintendant Dudley Father Joseph Jewkes Constable
Sarah HILLMAN F W Police Dudley Father William Dudley Dead Butcher
After Banns Joseph Signed The X Of Sarah
Wit; Hannah Davies Thomas Davies John A "“?

Have you found these in census's after marriage, to confirm Sarah's age.

Yes - on the 1861 census - where she is Sarah Jewkes, her age is shown as 41 and born in Dudley. So that ties up with the April 1819 birth date ...

[Jimmy]

1861. North Bierley, Yorkshire.
Joseph Jewkes 41. Hammerman. Tipton.
Sarah Jewkes 41. Dudley.
Sarah Ann Jewkes 14.
Caroline Jewkes 12.
David Jewkes 10.
Emma Jewkes 9.
Sophia Jewkes 6.
Harriot Jewkes 5 MO.

So she is living as Jukes before marriage.

1851. North Bierley, Yorkshire.
Joseph Jukes 31. Hammerman in forge. Tipton.
Sarah Jukes 30. Dudley.
Joseph Jukes 7.
Sarah Ann Jukes 11.
Caroline Jukes 2.
Louie Jukes 8 MO.

[chrishillman]

1861. North Bierley, Yorkshire.
Joseph Jewkes 41. Hammerman. Tipton.
Sarah Jewkes 41. Dudley.
Sarah Ann Jewkes 14.
Caroline Jewkes 12.
David Jewkes 10.
Emma Jewkes 9.
Sophia Jewkes 6.
Harriot Jewkes 5 MO.

So she is living as Jukes before marriage.

1851. North Bierley, Yorkshire.
Joseph Jukes 31. Hammerman in forge. Tipton.
Sarah Jukes 30. Dudley.
Joseph Jukes 7.
Sarah Ann Jukes 11.
Caroline Jukes 2.
Louie Jukes 8 MO.

There are quite a lot of Joseph Jewkes around (doesn't help when they are also listed as Dukes and other forms). Joseph on the marriage cert is listed as a superintendent of police in 1854 (and also a widower). His father is shown as a constable. I see lots of Joseph Jukes but their occupations are miners and labourers. I think that this is however getting side-tracked from the main issue, which was Sarah Dudley's previous marriage to a Hillman. I agree that the confirmation of the age of Sarah is an important issue.

[Jimmy]

1861. North Bierley, Yorkshire.
Joseph Jewkes 41. Hammerman. Tipton.
Sarah Jewkes 41. Dudley.
Sarah Ann Jewkes 14.
Caroline Jewkes 12.
David Jewkes 10.
Emma Jewkes 9.
Sophia Jewkes 6.
Harriot Jewkes 5 MO.

So she is living as Jukes before marriage.

1851. North Bierley, Yorkshire.
Joseph Jukes 31. Hammerman in forge. Tipton.
Sarah Jukes 30. Dudley.
Joseph Jukes 7.
Sarah Ann Jukes 11.
Caroline Jukes 2.
Louie Jukes 8 MO.

So are you saying this is not the right one.